AA Language, Rhetoric, Leaving AA- New Language, deprogramming-undoing the mindf**k.

small child scared

How deep does it go. Are you still using AA language. Do you still behave like a stepper? ….Maybe just a little? I guess that would depend how long you were in AA and how deeply involved you were. What does look like?  What does that sound like?

“He went out” vs “He had something to drink”.

                                       Sober – Abstinance,    

“Are you drinking?”

  they say ” Dry Drunk”  vs He /she is sober without AA.

“Are you drinking now ? vs I say ” I don’t do that anymore” meaning I don’t answer their question because it’s none of their business.  Or I answer it with “Hell yea, Yes I imbibe and I’m healed…I was never broken, I’m fine ! “

As far back as 23 years ago when I went into therapy, I learned that Bill and his Bullshit BB  were wrong about a few things. 1) all that stuff about anger was for normal folks? What a shithead he was. I did rage work with a PhD. and boy did that change me. You many think I can get mad now…you should have seen me before. But a good year-or two,  with a specialist  in childhood  abuse and even I felt like a new woman. Lots of rage, lots of sadness.

She said to me , ” you have never mourned your childhood” so I began to cry, 17 years sober and 35 years old back then, I cried like a baby. All that  rage just covering up decades of pain. Pain that AA only hardened and did not help one the bit. Friggen loser program. Lets not forget all the self blaming AA forced unto me , compiling more low self esteem and “Oh , ‘m a loser kinda mentality” including , I’m broken.

Yes I started deprogramming when I first found Orange Papers in 2009 , and then I blogged on Stinkin thinkin…but many ears ago, when I was 4 years sober and 22 years old in 1979, i began to question AA at some levels. It was then I began to read as many other books to try and figure out a way for me to feel okay. I knew I had done the 12 steps right and read the book cover to cover and so I deep down knew those books and AA were never going to fix what did need some adjusting….( Notice I didn’t say Fixing)

So i’d like a list of comeback’s you use to their stupid wording. Wording you use when you run into them in the street or tools and techniques you use. Hank Hayes book You’ve Been Lied too. is good for this. Also just really paying attention to what you say and how you talk, if you are trying to deprogram and when you say an AA colloquialism- you stop- and re say it like a normal person would.

People not even in AA are also brainwashed and are using these phrases because AA is so intrenched in our media, TV and films. I usually see them in line at a coffee shop etc, and they love to throw that line out” oh- I’m so addicted to this Starbucks!!! hahaha …its just like crack” one young guy said to me as I  put my straw into my ice tea drink.  I usually say something like . ” no …your not addicted and no that coffee is not like crack…you just like the coffee, you like Starbucks ”

 

If you listen to the early shows I did on Blog talk radio/ Safe Recovery you can hear me deprogramming on the radio week by week. I think I am going to do another show about the books that helped me the most. Please share here would you the books that helped you with a link them if you want.

 

 

 

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56 thoughts on “AA Language, Rhetoric, Leaving AA- New Language, deprogramming-undoing the mindf**k.

  1. Here is something I still do even after years of being out of the rooms. Sometimes something difficult will arise in my life and I will still find myself slowing down and praying in my head and saying to myself – God’s will and not mine be done. I don’t know what to make of this as I don’t believe it’s an out there behavior if one has some belief in some kind of force or God or whatever – but I still don’t like the idea of doing this in the Program way and I don’t like the implication that handling something difficult my way and doing it through my will is wrong. I even have resentment when catch myself doing this – resentment that I wasted so much time in the rooms and resentment that I’m not 100% over AA’s BS. BUT, the good news is that I’m much more free of AA now than i was when I finally walked out the door marked exit, never to return. So I believe there’s hope to get your will and your life back from AA and it’s ways – like anything else, it just takes some time.

    • I have been gone from AA four years now and am fairly happy with my decompensating from AA brainwashing techniques and rhetoric. It was tough at first, but now I look upon the reliance on AA meetings with sadness and pity.

      What did I really ever gain from all of those years of attending meetings, aside from chatting up a few friends? It was a good practice for me at first, but later became a crutch and a way to avoid much of real living. The admonishment of “powerlessness” is perhaps the most harmful thing I have ever been told to believe. There is nothing in my religious upbringing that can compare to the utter destruction and psychological stranglehold that the AA fake-spirituality has wreaked on my being.

      One odd thing is that I am so detached from AA that I do not recognize anyone from the meetings. They have to be out there, or has everyone moved out of town within the last four years? I think that I am drawing blanks on faces I used to see in AA. I go to the old haunts but see no one. I wonder if this is a common phenomenon amongst prior-cult members?

      • Maybe this is a positive sign and one that I identify with while in AA. I could be doing innocuous stuff and lo and behold there was an AA member! (Wooooh lol). At first it was kinda cool but leaving soon meant that it seemed that these “experiences” became less and less. For me I take this as a good thing in so far as wherever I have been the effect of “seeing” an AA just re-enforces that stupid book’s “spiritual angle”, physics and laws and anthropology can equate for any serendipity the steps “suggest” . AA became less, ie I have more important things to do with ones life rather than being vigilant to AA members, or vice visa, that are ex to my life..It is here I have found the biggest value and meaning to “recovery”.

        Better off without IMO.

      • I noticed that too. There may be a couple things at play for not seeing AA’s or recognizing them.

        1. AA is really one big human churn. I went to a big speaker meeting for years and saw a few of the same people every week. I was active in AA in many meetings so I could have known them from other meetings and not just this one speaker meeting. I didn’t go to meetings for 6 months and went to the speaker meeting and didn’t recognize anyone. They were all new and part of the massive AA churn.
        2. As far as seeing AA’s in public. If you are hanging out with only AA people you kind of go where they go. Once I stopped AA, I rarely ran into any of them. I think they are such a small percentage of the population and they tend to hang with each other, they just weren’t where I was any more. I was out living life and they were in meetings I guess. Did run into a couple over the years though, but it was very rare. One guy was pathetic and the other was a nice guy with nothing but problems. Felt badly for them both but its their fault if they stay in the religion of lunacy and powerlessness.

  2. Rob- Boy I hear you. I have caught myself a few times saying , or begin to say… some kind of AA prayer. I was big on praying, nothing wrong with that but…So I pause and take a moment, a breath and say an affirmation that I have created. 🙂

  3. I still have that aa “inner voice” berating me most of the time. It spews nothing but fear at me. Since leaving the cult I am slowly learning to detach from that voice and see where it comes from. When I do I feel much better and open-minded. That constant fear-mongering & self-criticism in those dungeons caused me a lot of depression & anxiety but now at least I know I don’t have to let it affect me when I recognize it for what it is. That constant drumming of readings & slogans also cause more damage than we think, I think the North Koreans & the Veit Cong used the same tactics on POW’s.

  4. Bitter- That is too bad. 🙁

    But you seem to have a sense of humor about it here…..No? Thats good….

    And you are right about brainwashing technique. Worse then Church for sure.

    • Thanks massive, I poke fun at steppers and the program now and it certainly helps. I did actually lose my sense of humor in those rooms but I value it now in my deprogramming. When I think of that slogan “don’t get too happy” it cracks me up at how stupid it sounds.

      • Bitter I feel the same: “That constant fear-mongering & self-criticism in those dungeons caused me a lot of depression & anxiety…” And I too lost my sense of humor and I used to do stand up so it was an integral part of who I was. I am very slowly getting it back. I sometimes am amazed at the damage AA caused to my sense of self, emotional balance and hope.

        • Hi mary, 12steppism can destroy a persons sense of self & humour. I used to hate the lame AA humour that was everything to do with the program, steppers trying to be ironic and of course every homegroup had it;s regular comedian who thought he/she was so funny. I do believe now that if a person could endure AA/NA for years he/she could endure anything!! Good luck mary with the deprogramming and your sense of humour will only improve.

          • I remember my first really good laugh after leaving AA – the kind where you can’t breathe well and it’s hard to stop laughing – it took two years after AA for this to happen for me. Ironically enough it happened at a bar – the bar of the hotel outside of the Grand Canyon that I was working at at the time. It happened for me – I did get my sense of humor back but I think now it’s a little dryer and perhaps a shade darker…..but I do find humor in everyday things again and I bet showing my face at AA and giving it a try again would be a sure fire way to kill off my sense of humor once more. Not happening – I’ve lived too long in the rooms with everything, I mean everything being serious and everything being an issue. Uggggh. So glad I’m not a part of that any more.

            • I’ll bet if they did a good study on how people’s thinking gets “darker” after being in AA, it would be a real eye opener.

              There has to be a reason people in AA commit suicide when sober or how they turn into killers in AA – meaning they never killed anyone until they were introduced to AA.

              Rolf Ankermans new book of “12 Steps to Dead” may touch on that a bit. You simply can’t take untrained lay people and put them in a program where misery, death, fear, manipulation, social bullying and a sky daddy are central pillars and expect them to get mentally healthy. It just ain’t gonna happen.

              • I’m an experienced psychiatrist with five sub-specialty certs and a PhD in Psychopharmacology. Having been a victim of 12-Step Mindf—–g in college, one would think I can fix it, right? I fixed myself. (Actually, my own shrinks and my strong will “fixed” me along with research that “trickled out”.) This is the most difficult job ANY shrink can attempt. I don’t do it alone. I call in colleagues, including Master Social Workers, Clinical Psychologists, etc. Incidentally, I’m not all about pills. I do Psychodynamic and other Psychotherapies pretty well, I”m told. I can’t EVER charge these clients my full fee and my colleague on this deprograming team agree to work for a fraction of their usual fees or pro bono. I do quite often. If docs, even shrinks, can be sued for malpractice for such actions, why can’t a federal law be passed compelling AA/NA to incorporate and, therefore, be liable for this horrendous Nazi-esque “reprogramming”. This is horrendous. My sister was the Sex Crimes Bureau Chief for 10 years in my big city, but she told me early on that “there’s no one to charge,” but she did indict and convict about two dozen 12-Step predators with my help and that of other expert witnesses.

  5. Deep down I wanted it too work and tried to believe it but I stopped doing what is expected of you if you’re doing the program i.e praying,meetings,preachin a.a shit to the new people. I just realised that the 12 steps are used to convert people to a religion that is full of heresies and general bullshit.. Its a slap in the face to people who go to church or if you’re atheist and have to believe in what god. That will be a definite mystery to me for as long as Im alive or unless someone tells me. Also people used a.a as a social club. In general I knew that there is nothing wrong with me Im normal run a the mill, just a bloke whatever you call normal. I get pissed off & so what!! and I just trusts my instincts, my feelings,my judgement and my intelligence. Aint nothing real about the people either all fake as fuck bar a few. I was lucky i didnt stick around for long coz it MAKES ME DRINK AGAIN. One word I use for everything they say & what do I say back without being derogtory, NONSENSE!!!! 😀 😀 😀 And if you say that I can guarantee it works if you work it!!!! ;D

    • Also if you wanna be downright rude if they insist on talking the a.a lingo to you. You can say, it wasn’t too long ago you were lying in yer own piss & you’re trying to tell me how I should go about my life!!!!

  6. Watching Chief Bromden escape at the end of One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest always help’s me deprogram when the brainwashing effects get bad.

  7. This is a great thread to open. I agree its really weird because I can be going about my day getting things done, getting organised and planning, all the normal stuff and in will float a word, like, just as I’m writing this the word powerless floated in lol, luckily I use CBT techniques to avoid procrastination and mindful non attachment as they are just words at the end of the day. Am I powerless right now? No. End of. I do have depression which is managed but I do think that the “Thinking” AA describes would, if assessed properly, share similar features to the widely researched literature on depression and it’s common features in relation to thoughts and feelings around self worth etc. However I have had experience in AA where my depression has been suggested to be something more, something far far worse. A spiritual disease no less. This quite frankly is just pernicious woo.

    • out of the woods. Sounds like you have a good handle on your stuff. I think many long time members after a time get really sick. Like after 20 years they get weird unless they get real therapy.

      • I have since witnessed two people I knew well go over the 20 year mark and they have turned into two angry weird a..holes. Petulant outbursts & downright nastiness. Needless to say I am not their friends anymore. That 20 year mark has that effect alright..

  8. I didn’t like the AA slogans even when I was in AA. Maybe it’s for the same reason I don’t like songs that are nothing but a repeat of the same lyrics over and over, but at least in that case I can sometimes enjoy the music that accompanies a song. Sitting in meetings I sometimes felt as if I was listening to programmed robots and for me personally this is one of the red flags that there was something not right about this program. In addition, some slogans I found to be downright lies, such as “Jail, Institutions, and Death. The only time I visited an institution was during my short stay in AA and it was for severe depression that only seemed to get worse the longer I was in the program. Furthermore, I had quit drinking once before for 30 years without any help whatsoever and I for sure was not a dry drunk. Boy, did I get the looks when I mentioned my sobriety years without the help of AA. I soon learned such mention was off limits. BS is all I can say! I read several anti AA books with my favorite being the more recent The Sober Truth by Lance Dodds, PhD. Outstanding, well researched book.

    • Good for you! 🙂 I have a similar story. I did see an institution once before AA but I saw it again twice while in AA within 7 months of each other. AA did make my depression and anxiety worse and of course i was blamed for it. I didn’t dare talk about my depression after a while because it was a sign that I “didn’t get the program”. Of course that’s B.S.

      • Hi Mind Renewal- Nice pic- Welcome ! Looks like you are not hiding either…How long did you attend and how long are you gone.

  9. I consumed the Big Book, 12×12, Living Sober, Grapevine and of course, the literature. All designed to help me in my quest to becoming happy, joyous and free. I mean, here were experts advising me who held Ph.D.’s, M.D.’s, scientist and psychologists, LCSW’s addiction specialist, counselors, and of course, laymen and laywomen who had experience in “this thing of ours”. (That’s a movie reference.) More importantly, I had the program, created by Bill W. the First Professional Expert Alcoholic.

    Who was I to doubt the words of the experienced? The only PhD I had was the one I used to set fence post in the ground. It was all there in those pages of redemption. It wasn’t enough to prove you wrong in what you believed or practiced, it was more important to show you I was right in what I believed and practiced. Just ask me. After all, I did read the material.

    What could go wrong? I read. I wrote. I collected pages of wisdom, compiled, catalogued and I molded myself into the perfect projection of that process. Without question, I believed, whether it was true or not, believed whether it was real or not and worked on “it”, whether it was beneficial for me or not, right up to the day I listened to what I was saying and realized I was an echo, standing in a dead man’s shadow

    I became a copy of those I had read and listened to. Precise and mechanical I offered my findings as a sword of judgment, not as a touchstone of humility, temperance or understanding. I was caught in a loop, with no beginning, no hope for an emotional vaccine and no end. That’s what went wrong.

      • RA jul- Fantastic writing. Welcome ! Thats something my hubby an dI always talk about.

        The Loop. I think it drives some mad!

    • Thank you for expressing what so many feel. I’m not as eloquent as you but I know that when I left I felt like I was a Borg from Star Trek.

    • I have a MD, five-subspecialty certification in Psychiatry and a PhD in Psychopharmacology — and I’m not just about mixing medication cocktails. I do Psychodynamic Psychotherapy pretty well,. I’d like to know where all these PhDs, LCSWs, et. al., came from and WHERE they obtained their degrees. How were they advising you? Certainly not in session.

  10. What a perfect word, “pernicious”. That describes it exactly. I started out enthusiastic, involved and having fun (once I felt better physically) with the social aspect. I was so happy to be love bombed by my new instant family and go to dinners, parties, etc. after being fairly miserable between my drinking and family problems for the past almost a year. Before which I was abstinent for 2.5 years, before which I got a DUI, before that I was off and on for 8 years with AA, and had 14 years abstinence from alcohol though did smoke weed, that takes us back to my beginning of 12 step programs in 1984! Anyway, I eventually lost my sparkle and was just depressed . I felt out of touch with myself and couldn’t imagine why. I had these wonderful pals and was involved in service even at Area. If I wanted to, I could attend a clean time celebration meeting practically every night of the week. I had my family, home, etc. I should be grateful! It took awhile to pinpoint it, which is weird, but the 12 step involvement does have a pernicious effect. It crept up on me. The seemingly well intentioned interest of my new bff the Stepford wife couldn’t be wrong – surely it was Me with the problem. How was this perfect program possibly to blame. Well L.O.L. It’s to blame by this weird Buchmanist cult religion that most of them don’t even know about, being chanted and repeated into my subconcious after attending about a thousand meetings but not really paying close attention! By having the same nonsensical responses to my questions, and solutions being mainly to pray, call my sponsor, go to a meeting. Going to meetings is fucking depressing! And for all my service work, I never “shared” once. I did my one year celebration share, and did a couple rehab shares, but I mean in a regular meeting I never shared. I just could not bring myself to do it. I wasn’t feeling it, I didn’t have one thing to say, I never had a “burning desire”, or any kind of situation in my life that drove me to spew forth in a meeting. At first I beat myself up over it, wanting to use all of the program tools and get better, but now? I am GLAD I never shared! And that I had the good sense to be studying up on boundaries the whole time because that was one thing I really felt, that constant violation of boundaries by these wack jobs. I don’t usually call people wack jobs but if the shoe fits. So many inappropriate and intrusive questions. WTF. I have been reading everything online about anti 12 Steppers and deprogramming that I can find. It has been a great help. Yay for orange, and massive, and antidenial, and Lance Dodes, Stanton Peele, and all the other bloggers and professionals who have published. This is a topic very near to my heart. And if there is one Stepper phrase that pops up it applies here, what is my PART IN IT? My part in it is that I lacked faith in myself and was vulnerable in difficult times. Thanks for being here.

    • When the steps, traditions and accompanying literature are the focus of AA, we have seen the introduction of any information in conflict with this program discouraged and in some cases outright dismissed, often with consequence. There is no option for an open system. The absence of alternative solutions makes it insular and non-inclusive.
      The practical application of reaching the newcomer is at best trying to paint a very thin line with an extremely broad brush held by a shaky hand. The newcomer is looking for an answer, not a description of their own destructive behavior, not a rehashing of events that led them to this point, nor the embarrassment of being singled out and lectured to, as one would a child over a glass of spilled milk.
      Under the guise of working a good program, a newcomer is told to mitigate any problems by prayer, meditation or service commitments. Often, it distracts from the real issues through avoidance. A form of spiritual bypass, (Welwood, 1984,) it creates the illusion that a sponsor can help a newcomer manage their feelings, while the sponsor avoids and disengages from their own, for the gratification of the sponsors’ program, at the expense and detriment of the newcomer.

      • And the irony in the fact that the BB EXPLICITLY mentions the willingness to adapt to any new and evolving information boggles the mind.

  11. I found that I couldn’t share and when i did I was conscious of it just being regurgitation. Over and over I thought what I would like to say only to be superseded by what would sound good. This is typical in group homogeneity and for newbies in this type of system it is imperative for “acceptance” . Primarily I was in the transition period known as the pink fluffy cloud (for those that remember Monkey Magic back in the day this was quite funny for me to think of). This was great..felt good, doing well and was quite happy saying so, until the doom mongers stepped up and chided. So began the enforcement of being diseased that though I had stopped drinking, felt great, happy with things, this was wrong. I came to the conclusion that having done a step 4 would go some way to helping. It appeared not. There were many surprised members who found this to be to soon, too quick to be getting into recovery of this chronic fatal “disease”. Imagine my surprise when I quoted back what it said in the BB about this “vital step”.

    Confusing isn’t it when the supposed answer to your problems is then denied by denial experts in AA.

    Either it works if you work it or..

    ..It works if you walk out it can’t if you don’t.

    Be safe be happy.

  12. “So began the enforcement of being diseased that though I had stopped drinking, felt great, happy with things, this was wrong.”
    I totally relate to that, out of the woods.
    The other day, a friend with healthy skepticism was describing how her friend turned into a cult zombie in a meeting, “sharing” how she loved everyone and her whole life was changed by doing step one, and my friend was like, “What?! Didn’t they see that she’s just b.s.’ing to gain approval?!” It doesn’t seem to matter, as long as the cult is venerated.

  13. Hey all. This kid is done with AA too but I have questions.
    I’ve been reading on this website, Orange Papers, Stanton etc. This is all very recent for me this anti-aa stuff.
    I really don’t understand some of the anti-aa hype. To be sure, I loathed aa, and I saw some distressing issues within it from the beginning. Perhaps first and foremost was the hypocrisy. Hypocrisy can be found everywhere – even within myself at times.
    But I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water.
    For example, (speaking as a Christian – and this is my submission, I don’t expect everyone else to be a Christian or hold my viewpoints), is not the leveling of pride a healthy thing in Christianity? Is not dependence upon God a healthy and indeed, a requirement, of being a Christian? (and I don’t mean blind otherwise He would never have said to us “come let us reason together” for obviously He expects us to use the brains He gave us).
    Is not making amends to people we hurt something we should practice in our lives anyway?
    Should we not live prayerful lives? Be grateful?

    I guess what I’m saying is unless you have been abused in aa, why is there such bad-mouthing out there? I mean, really, is there anything, anyone, in this life that is above reproach? There was only One and that One was nailed to a Cross.
    I think that the above are good and necessary characteristics to have in my life as a Christian. What I don’t necessarily agree with is the methodology used by aa.

    I don’t believe I need to be belittled, verbally abused, manipulated and coerced into participating in things or echoing the sentiment of the organization that I don’t agree with. To me, those are the faults of aa, its literature, and some of aa’s self appointed super heros. (My God! People killed trees to print that crap instead of using them for something that we all need – Butt wipe!) Lol.

    Maybe I don’t have a question. Yeah, aa sucks, but do we as anti-aa’s need to stoop to their level?

    I wish you a marvelous day, people.

    John

    • HI John ..stopp to their level.???

      No body here is molesting children, raping women and killing them. No body here is saying ” what is your part in it after one is raped. We can not be compared to predators.

    • John

      I do hear you if we are talking about a spiritual life, but we are not, we are talking about a religious cult, that is now also a multi billion dollar treatment industry, and touted as a ‘treatment’ for a bonafide medical condition. As a Christian, I’m thinking that if you were diagnosed with cancer, you would go to a hospital and not a church (even if your faith was part of your coping mechanism for dealing with a devastating diagnosis)? I’m guessing you’d also want your doctor to rely on science and not on God (my personal belief is God gave us a big clue to his existence, SCIENCE!!).

      I think people are free to choose whatever spiritual path works for them, what I don’t agree with is being told that the only way to recover from a compulsive behaviour is to surrender to God or make amends or whatever. Alcoholism is not a spiritual malady and spirituality should not be offered as a ‘cure’. It’s abusive and more importantly it doesn’t work. It’s a corrupt evil racket.

      In fact it was the more I learned about religion (i’m not religious but I am curious) that led me out of the heretical doors of AA.

      And the church was held accountable for the terrible, terrible abuses going on under its roof. The naivete and hostility of ‘true believers’ towards victims was an awful thing, they could not believe that cuddly little father O’Malley could be a paedophile or a rapist, and this denial kept the abuse going and retraumatized victims over and over again. The Christian insistence on ‘forgiveness’ (without justice) was a horrible thing done to victims and this is still going on in the church now, particularly the Catholic church. So whilst I am all in favour of people having faith if they want, it has nothing to do with the man made institutions that hurt people. AA is an institution, and if there is a God I believe He’d see Bill W for the false prophet he is.

      Addiction is a complex thing, if your faith helps you fine, but faith healing is not an acceptable treatment for it. And people should not be told that it’s ‘live life on a spiritual basis or else’ – that’s abuse. It’s also a lie.

      Girlscout

    • John, I think there are a few points you haven’t considered. Prayer and prayer rituals as used in AA are by definition religious practices. Yes, they can also be described as “spiritual”, but in AA usage, that’s simply a more generic euphemism. That’s not just my opinion, that’s also been the opinion every time the “spiritual, not religious” claim has been tested before a higher court. In the United States, it is unconstitutional to force anyone to accept a religion, or to use religion as punishment. Yet, it still happens everyday in lower courts all across the country whenever someone is court mandated to attend a twelve step program. I see that you are Canadian, and I have no idea what the situation there is regarding court mandated AA attendance. AA is also widely sold as the basis for a medical treatment in the US, but I see that Girl Scout has pretty well covered that aspect.
      I have no problem with prayer or an “attitude of gratitude”, so to speak if someone wants to embrace those things. Those are personal matters that have no business being sold as medical treatment or used as punishment.

      • Rick and JOHN-

        Spiritual means religious in the Dictionary. I have looked it up in a 1935 version and a 1980 one.

        I think that AA is not spiritual because it harbors predators an victim blames which is not spiritual either.

        Another definition for spiritual is ;pure- holy- heavenly- also not AA.

        From the dictionary from Random House 1980- ; Of or Pertaining to Sacred things or matters; religious.

        ALSO NOT AA! LOL.

        We all fight about this term. They think they can just make up what words mean. Why not? they are controlling the DOJ, The FAA, THE BON, AND The AMA….who the fuck are these controlling , powerful asses?

        Arrogant AA members who think they know everything and there way is right and their way is good for everyone.

        It is very scary to see how deep they go. But we can unseat them and we will …

  14. I guess the first half of your post suggests that you will find the answers to these questions in time as your faith will allow, now that you are no longer in AA.
    In answer to the final question, people are allowed to form opinions and views about their experiences and are able to say things in a way that reflects meaning and value. AA has had it’s own way for way too long and whether an individual has been abused as a result of attendance or not should not detract people from being able to talk about their experience. Have you looked at recovering from recovery or other sites? What is interesting is that many different blogs exist with different views around what it is to leave AA and live. Some are very anti others aren’t as so. Horses for courses as they say. Importantly it reflects the modern view that all “alcoholics” aren’t just peas in a pod suffering from a tri fold disease invented before penicillin was discovered and used to good effect. People are unique, like your good self and if people wish to be vocal about AA then so be it, perhaps some people need to develop a sense of pride?. Hopefully you will find, as you go along, that AA isn’t quite the self appointed world authority on all things alcohol overuse recovery, rather, just a stuffy octogenarian with antiquated views on how it all should be and more.. buts that for you to find out with that lovely brain.

    Have a good day too.

    Best Wishes.

    • @ out of the woods:
      Thanks for the kind and challenging words.
      You said “Hopefully you will find, as you go along, that AA isn’t quite the self appointed world authority on all things alcohol overuse recovery, rather, just a stuffy octogenarian with antiquated views”

      i already have. i just didn’t deem aa worthy of my attention to the point that some have. but i’m only just beginning my escape from aa. given time, i’m sure i can develop a pretty healthy righteous indignation against it as well. Bit of luck, I might develop a real good resentment lmao

      Cheers
      john

        • Here is a fun quote from The Fix..

          The fact that some members of AA say those things does not mean I’m a member of AA and that I say them. I generally don’t diagnose anyone as anything, its not a productive use of my time, its actually counter-productive in most instances, etc etc. I do well to diagnose myself, and have often been mistaken, but i recognize a moose when i see one…

          This is a general view of how cognitive dissonance works in AA..

          it is everything but I’m not a member..(Not Responsible?)

          I don’t diagnose anyone as anything.. (As above)

          Not a productive use of time…(As above)

          I do well to diagnose myself…

          Have often been mistaken.

          aaand…

          recognize a moose when I see one.

          There are so many fallacies to this available viewpoint on what AA can offer that it is important to understand that AA actually seems to offer very little, other than confusion and clearly an inability to state anything of any importance as an individual.

          Shame really.

          • Some more funny quotes from AA people..it’s okay they allegedly have no opinion on outside issues.

            Yes, Stephen, it’s a shame when publicity hunters give out their names as AA members. Those of us who owe our lives to AA & the respect we have for it and wouldn’t break the Traditions that have been in place for so many years, are the winners.
            namaste’

            The 12 and 12 were published in ?..

            1952..

            so a question is how long is a tradition?

            Whats a tradition?

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradition

            Since the original BB was written in 1939..12 years later? how on earth can that be anything to form a “tradition” already back in the day with little anything ever?!! ..

            Or were the traditions ordersss? woooh

  15. Throw the baby out with the bath water? I have heard that before. Yes we are throwing the bathwater out because the baby isn’t safe in it.

    We each have a right to how we view AA when we leave. TO each his own.

    • I agree. My last meeting was about 5 months ago. Now I’m getting creepy 12 step calls and texts. It just reinforces to me the cult nature of a group that does WAY more harm than good, if it does any good at all. Have a good day.

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