Alcoholics Anonymous is a Cult of Massive Manipulated proportions. SCARY STEPPER MOVIE Part 1

cults

SO what makes up a cult? There is a conversation that I hope to bring over here from a FACEBOOK group I am in. At a few times in history AA was compared to Scientology. The AMA was critical of it. So what happened. How much money , and power did it take. Or was it just Hollywoods fault. Lillian Gish, Marty Mann, The Lost Weekend, The Days of Wine & Roses, Dick van Dyke’s fault and his 1975 Press conference with Senator Hughes in Washington DC?

Why did I even fight those words and say..”.no AA is not a cult…gee Bill W is dead.” Where is the leader. How can you have a cult if the leader is dead? Well, surely now I know this doesn’t matter.

What would a movie look like if it really tore up AA. I would actually like to make one. Would it be a comedy? A dark Comedy like Shameless? Would it have to be a series like Dextor on Showtime. Showing the real horrors of disgusting predatory men who have disgusting violent sex with 16 year old girls at ICYPAA events . Guys with tattoos and are 25 years older then the young teens they are .with …well …you get the picture.

These are the types of emails I get. I have gotten for the past 5 years, starting with my stop13stepinaa Blog. Its such a quiet thing these days, yet still people find me from it.

If you didn’t notice…Im pissed off tonight.

I AM NOT Β ALONE! !!!!!!!!!!!!

I know there are thousands more Β out there.

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75 thoughts on “Alcoholics Anonymous is a Cult of Massive Manipulated proportions. SCARY STEPPER MOVIE Part 1

  1. If it’s any consolation, I’m sure that many people avoided the cult due to your efforts. Sometimes that’s the best we can do, regardless of whether others appreciate it. πŸ™‚

  2. You aren’t alone!!! Not at all. And I’m raising Cain here in my city. Had a long talk on Friday with the head of social work. Told them about Gabrielle peice. They read it. I truly think AA will be completely exposed within 20-30 yrs.

    Now five years ago I never would have said that. Thanks for all that you’ve done…

  3. You are not alone Massive. I sometimes find a deep anger well up in me. Its not like me to be angry. I am not an angry person, but sometimes I just can’t help it. I grind my teeth and long for justice for everyone who has been harmed by this parasite on medicine and psychology. I may have lost a career because I chose honesty, the path less traveled, but I cannot imagine the loss others feel. I lost and I am losing some of the best years of my life because of this group but I feel great empathy for those who have lost their lives and those who have been preyed upon.

    This needs to stop, this will stop, we will make this stop. Like you said, one radio show, one blog, one movie, one article, one person at a time, we can do this. One thing I know for sure is…they are scared of us and they should be.

  4. I am past the point of walking on egg shells around these people for fear of offending them. This fear is irrational. Its a fear that they have programmed into people never to question their dogma. AA is a parasitic, mind controlling, evil cult. There is a good book that I want to order, it was recommended by one of the physicians blogging on Dr. Langan’s site. Its called the Lucifer effect. Its essentially a phenomenon whereby good men and women are turned evil. I had the choice to concede to these people, to lie and say that AA saved me, and then to carry the lie forward to others. I could have had everything back, my career, my life, my bank account, my sense of identity but…at what price? Keep blogging, never stop. They spew ridicule, hate and vitriol but this means we are winning.

  5. Keep blogging, I need it, I am a week person. I am doing the therapy, much delayed. I have big issues with verbal abuse from childhood onward, so I am not public about my views, but I have a new therapist and I am hoping to educate her as she treats me. You have helped me so much, I can’t put it into words.

  6. Thanks:) Hug Back..I am still very sad this morning . I am going to walk my dog, have some tea, meditate, go for swim and then go to the spa to try and relax. My sadness is over whelming me to day. I can not stop it. It feels like a another layer of grief for the time and energy wasted. I learned that in good therapy -that emotions are like waves.

    I do not think I will do a show. But later I may ask some of you that I know well to Skype with me.

    Thanks again.

  7. I woke up again this morning with more anger & exasperation at this cult. My first sponser did a lot of damage as I am now realizing more & more. I have to check myself cos I go into thinking what a fool I was to trust & believe this stupid little man, I am not the only one who has been hoodwinked by this crap. My years in that cult were the worst of my life & I won’t get those years back. I tell everyone now about that evil doctrine, it’s akin to having scienetology & the moonies incorporated into the medical & judicial profession!! Thank god for massive & the internet otherwise I would have suffered a nervous breakdown or would have killed myself. In all my years using & drinking I never ONCE thought of killing myself but in that cult I thought about it most of the time & almost went there one night. The made up quasi religion by a con man that got this far is beyond me…Again thank you massive very much.

  8. hi Bitter- You are so welcome ! I feel you. I am really sad today about my time wasted. But I hope I will feel better tomorrow.

  9. I received this text from a woman to day :Hey sister whom I love. I miss you. A mutual friend drove me around on errands and I asked him how you were doing. He told me your decision to leave aa. I understand but love you and worry about your spiritual health. I would be honored to be your sponsor, even if it’s only temporary. You are loved by more people more then you will ever know. Call me when you have a minute. Hugs!…. So I text her back said I feel better now than I have in a long time and thanks for the text love you too. …… I left March 16th. Wtf people really think I will lose everything in two weeks… I am not drinking and almost daily I receive something from a friend in the cult. I love my friends I always will but I feel like weren’t they listening to me for the last year in half about the women I was sponsoring being harmed by the 13th stepping. Weren’t they listening when I cried over the dogma … I have to say this somewhere. I created 13th step flyers and hung then as they were torn down liked tolked the steering committee I talked to I felt like I was being lacked a Jane Fonda … Wtf. Women I used to sponsor have called me and I have said I won’t tell you not to go back to AA bit I have left and please please be careful of you do. I sent her links to alternatives. I just picked up three books on alcoholism – not AA approved… Seriously… I have a long AA story too. Regrets and heart ache. I wish I could have been strong enough smart enough but I wasn’t and now I will either lose friends or not be able to stand the scrutiny of people waiting for me to be miserable and relapse. The jargon. The dogma. Deprogram me..

  10. Another insight for me this morning was of how stupid & ludicrious the AA HP was, make up a god of your own & it will protect you & maybe even give you things if you pray to it/him/her. I fell for that Genie in a Bottle concept I must say. The more a person stays away from that insanity the more insights & clarity a person gets, getting my mind back is great as I feel I was in a coma for years, lost years.

    • I wrote last night about what I really believe… I talked about things no one wanted to hear about awareness of my thoughts. Stiff like that. My higher power …. I would day is frequency.. Vibration. My hall was/is very Christian and learned to be open minded but I am not Christian and do found myself having to defend that. That there were the believers… And the others. I didn’t say the Lords prayer and a person I thought was a friend said oh I didn’t know you were pagan … Ha ha ha wow. So much for that.. Dame person wanted me to align her chakras when her floating life was suffering. Not bitter just have lots to heal and let go. Don’t you know

      • GRACE_ HI ___—-Welcome! OH its so fucked up. I know we put up big posters and drilled them into the wall, and in one day they took them down at The Marina Center on Washinton Blvd. in Culver CITY. We went back and put it up again.

        Then I gave up. I put make AA Safer Pamphlets everywhere. They are all over the world.

        Im so glad you found us and you will lose a few friends. They are afraid of us like we got the coodies or something crazy.
        Nobody gets struck drunk. And Many drink normally / imbibe again after leaving. Some don’t want to and thats cool too.

        Again. Welcome!

        • Thanks πŸ™‚ I think AA cost me my marriage about 15 years ago. The men I met and decided to hang out with were so harmful to me and I just had such low self worth. This is the first time in my life I have felt strong enough to just stop going knowing I am aware of who I am and my thoughts. The details will come out as I write and write. I may do a WordPress blog. A few months ago to handle the rage – I wrote an outline to very creative book that served the purpose of creative healing process. I was never a person to quote the slogans but man I know the book and stuff that made people think anyway. I am a survivor I would tell people who were sick of hearing me talk about 13th stepping. Think of all the women who never returned because of shame etc. They would shrug and say there is nothing you can do. I would say awareness… But I got tired, worn out, just ready to move on and live life. Thank you for this forum.

  11. wow Grace- they are so weird those women who say that. Like its the 1950’s or an episode of Madmen. !

    I know AA hurt my first marriage and my children. πŸ™

    Im glad I moved on and left in 2011. I just wish I left when I arrived in LA in 1983.

    Or even when my son was born in 1990. I did stop going regularly when they were born. I went to no nighttime meetings and only went once a month to a home meeting for couples. It was like a support group for AA couples. No readings etc thank god, but …oh we’ll..whatever….Nothing can be done…I waste those years. I was fooled.

  12. I too choose to hang around with the low-worth losers after being told they were the winners because they work a good program & go to a lot of meetings,what a waste!! I too wish I had left in 2000 when I suddenly realized in a meeting that it was insane childish nonsense but I was told by well-meaning winners that it was my disease talking & I won’t get the Promises, instilled with fear really so I stayed and wasted a good 11 yrs of my life. That cult manipulates with FEAR & GASLIGHTING.

  13. It gets better. I haven’t been in the cult since 1992. (I was introduced in 1979.)

    Avoid people, places, and things that may lead you back to AA, especially black-and-white anti-intellectual mouthpieces for authoritarianism on TV or in the movies; religious zombies; law-and-order freaks; military worshipers. These are troubled souls who want nothing more than to take free will away from viable human souls and turn them into cultists.

    If you’re in psychotherapy, make sure there are no “Big Books” present—it shows the shrink is a naif or a people-pleasing quack.

    It takes time. It’s painful. But if I can make it after being sexually abused by a much-older and mentally unstable woman, brainwashed by a psychotic racist who had “great” sobriety, made fun of by “the Fellowship” for dating a young woman who was an “Earth Person” (not a member of AA), and ignored when I went to college in my mid-20s, you can too.

    Forget them. They’re garbage.

    • Turn their insanity back on them. Have a sense of humor, as you’re showing now. As I joke, “My worst day drunk is better than my best day sober.” Let go of them. They’re vapid fools, rapists, religious lunatics, racists, manipulators, wankers, brain-damaged, and smelly. In a world of humans 7.2 billion strong, only about 1 million buy into their lunacy, and half of those clown are “acting as if,” if not closet drinking or drugging.

  14. I’m fucking mad too!! I’m fucking sick of those brainwashed steppers throwing their fucking koolaid at me. Thank god I left the evil cult to save myself. It’s all bullshit manipulation and evil mind control. I needed to get that off my chest too! Why can’t it be blown wide open like Scientology?! I believe it’s just a matter of time.

  15. I have an odd relationship with AA. I’ve shared before that I quit drinking for 30 years, had some tragedies, returned to drinking heavily for 11 months and ended up being talked into rehab. My counselor and doctor talked me into rehab and my brother strongly suggested AA, which he believes saved his life.I was so depressed from the tragedies when I entered rehab that I seldom read my Big Book and usually slept during my spare time. However, I got a sponsor after I got out of rehab and she had me read the Big Book with her. That is when this feeling that had been with me that something was wrong finally started to make sense. Too much of what I was reading conflicted with my Christian beliefs, which led me to research the program and it’s founders and it wasn’t long before I realized I had unmistakably joined a cult. I got out and I too experienced a lot of anger and still do at times over what I believe to be pure deception. I sometimes wonder if the counselors believe half of what their saying. But what has been the most difficult for me is one the Christian counselor who talked me into rehab. As soon as I began to question the program she dropped me as her patient and wants nothing to do with me now. Could it be because in addition to counseling she also works for a rehab facility. She is a member of my church and a friend of my parents and this hurt. Then there is my brother. We have agreed to disagree but when I read some of the things like being able to basically make whatever you want your higher power I can’t believe that my brother who was raised by my devout Christian father just as I was could be falling for this. When I told him the things I discovered about Bill Wilson his reply was so what and he told me that he seldom read the book anyways. But insisted that it didn’t matter because the program works if you work it and that the program had saved his life. My brother is also a Christian, yet he gave AA more credit than God or his own self will for defeating his addiction. My dad once made us return oiji board we got at a birthday party. We were taught that some of the very actions Wilson was involved in were downright evil,yet my brother has his eye closed. In my opinion he has been brainwashed and it makes me furious and it makes me furious that neither he nor my counselor, two people who had to have known that if I knew what was in that book I never would have agreed to any of this nonsense. Furthermore, what about the 30 years I didn’t drink without any help do they think that was just a fluke. I can say this, it was a lot easier, a lot less drama, and I didn’t feel I was going against my faith.

  16. Really nice post, Monica. I so empathize and relate. It is difficult sometimes to put the flogger down when the ‘regrets blues’ come along. Having regrets is gonna hit us all every now and then, I think. A good cry every now and then so helps my healing and, I feel, does me good. Rough feeling it.
    Recovering-from-recovery may be a little bumpy at times, but it’ll never be as pot-holed and ugly as like being in the roomz of Alcoholics Anonymous. Feels good not being so filled with anguish, pummeled with guilt, enduring the the pressure, doing stuff people told me to do like I was a lap dog. “Do it or die, young lady. Meeting makers make it.” Ick. Happy beyond joy I no longer sit in those chairs, pretending/imagining my ass is superglued to the metal chair, lest I stand up and walk out. Should have walked out, and done what my gut was telling me to do. No more listening to their wars stories incessantly, over and over in those monotone, canned, robotic speeches, reliving their anguish repetitively.
    I frequently feel alone, but it’s getting better. Been hanging with a few activists who’s energy is so much vibrant, creative, and artsy. It’s inviting, upbeat and comfortable being around them. We’re doing good stuff for our community and environment. I like being an activist these days too.
    So glad I know you. We should skype someday.
    Peace…

  17. First off let me state that I am not immune from both anger and sadness due to the years I wasted in the cult. At first it was overwhelming – maybe because for a long time I tried to hold back the anger and sadness, and grief, too, over buying into the BS that is AA. I can’t get that time back, much as I’d like to. What I can do is participate in anti AA sites such as this, and also strive to be the best me I am capable of being today. I’m 48, if I live the typical American male lifespan I still have some years left – and without AA. It is up to me to do something awesome with them, or at least try to.
    And I believe you are having an impact Massive – the truth about AA is getting out there little by little and it seems to me more and more people are leaving the rooms. It’s going to take time but there is momentum gaining traction. Hang in there! Be good to yourself and if you need time away from all this to recharge, by all means let yourself have it. You have the respect of this former AA zombie come back to life and I’m sure the respect of many more people too.

  18. I really …appreciate all your support here. I am so sad still but …Ill just try to do more loving stuff and take care of myself and I know the feelings will move on eventually.

    You notice how I DIDN’T SAY : “This too shall pass” LOL

    • What trite AA slogan do you find most annoying – is it This Too Shall Pass? Just curious. Mine would be It Works If You Work It. That one there is the height of vague ambiguous BS.

  19. I would love to see a “Going Clear” type movie about Alcoholics Anonymous, done by a prominent filmmaker and shown to a wide audience. Sadly though, AA doesn’t have the sex appeal of Scientology – the celebrity center, The Hole, Tom Cruise and John Travolta.

    And there’s no creepy David Miscavige-type personality at the top, so it’s hard to put an evil face on the program. AA is amorphous. I am hopeful that like another poster said, we will see the end of the program within a couple of decades, because younger people seem to be more educated about the 12 Steps.

    • There are people who will speak out eventually. My film will break the ice. Then I too hope some of these guys will take on a portion of this story. I told Alex Gibney and to Kirby DIck about AA trying to get them to help me make he film .

  20. Only for the internet at least 99% of people would still be unaware of the AA Cult. I eventually mainstream media will pick up on it but more & more high profile people have to come out about the scam. I thought with Robin Williams death there would have been questions asked but AA came out of it with roses again. A lot of people in the mainstream media are members of AA.

  21. bitter – so true. The LA TIMES printed NOTHING about Robin Williams when he died. That was so sad πŸ™ . I hate that he died like that….. Those Mother fuckers pretended like he never existed. The Hollywood Reporter put him on the cover that week. The LA times is run by a stepper .

    So even though many have positions in high places there are many normal people who out number them. There are 350,000,000 million americans and only 800,000 AA members in the US. I believe AA is shrinking radially. I personally know so many old-timers who have left and over 70 % are drinking normally again. with great ease ….

    We outnumber them. We are are finally gaining traction .

  22. What is needed is for AA to made open it’s books to the public record and people will really then ask serious questions. Penn & Teller were brave that time to expose the scam so we need more high profile people to speak out about the money-making voodoo.

    • Speaking of books. There should be a national demand that the book that is the basic text for cult living be subjected to a peer review of a wide range of scientists that deal with addiction and metal illness to determine its validity as a “recovery text book”. If the government is going to force people into this AA nonsense, the book that is the basis for the cult needs full medical and educational review. Children’s first grade readers get more review than a book that claims to represent a modality for arresting a supposedly chronic, fatal and progressive disease.

      The whole thing is a dangerous joke and it is being played on the public without their knowledge.

      • They will figure out the same thing the AMA did in 1939 when they first reviewed the big book:

        “The book contains instructions as to how to intrigue the alcoholic addict into the acceptance of divine guidance in place of alcohol in terms strongly reminiscent of Dale Carnegie and the adherents of the Buchman (“Oxford”) movement. The one valid thing in the book is the recognition of the seriousness of addiction to alcohol Other than this, the book has no scientific merit or interest.”

        http://silkworth.net/bbreviews/01007.html

  23. Yet I know steppers who hold intense & deep (their words not mine) Book Study meetings hoping to find some hidden insights & inspiration from that book. (What did Bill really mean when he wrote this)!!

  24. Yep, I never could figure out why a “simple program” required such in-depth, obsessive study. But then, I never heard anyone explain in concise, tangible terms what the entire “simple program” really was. I mean, really, why is it necessary to attend open discussion meetings, closed meetings, speaker meetings, step study meetings, Big Book studies, “How Bill Sees It” meetings, and marathon Alkathons for a “simple program”?

    • Finding the simple answer???? When one starts to question one of the pat responses is to :”trust the process” or “Let go and let God” or my favorite “You need to go to al anon” And pile on some other 12 step programming while your at it with: ACOA, OA, NA, Just find any A and stop asking questions…… LOL

  25. I have a troll following me around on the internet, reading here, posting about me over there. this is not on the opf, its on these other sites that were generated by The Atlantic piece. I have tried not responding, I have tried fighting ….today I told her to go fuck herself and get a life.

    I have considered not posting anymore, but because of these articles, others who have been very harmed have contacted me and I do not want that to stop.

    I am considering what to do again. There was a time where she went away, but now is back . She reads here, listens to my pod casts and writes about me on the posts where the topic is not about me.
    There are others defending me which is super nice, but she is very mean and a super fucking bitch. I hope the troll is reading this now.

    This is part of leaving AA. This is what a cult is. If it were not a cult , if it were a nice support group this would not happen. It has happened to other bloggers too In fact she is lying about another blogger I know. She has hired a lawyer to deal with it. She is spreading lies about this other woman.

    I will tell the world about these assholes trolls when I finally am being interviewed and some Pro AA journalist tells me that AA is a lovely support group!

    Is this happening to you?

    • It is most unfortunate, but it is to be expected. Your chosen battle is in a realm of social and mental deviants and they will come after you in one way or another. It is what they do when the religion that they obey is challenged. To challenge AA is to challenge their very lives so there will be a never ending stream of these types of people. The more popular your effort becomes, the more of them appear. They want to stop you and you have shown weakness through your temper. In this battle you must be hard as nails and have a very even, consistent tone online. If you can not do that, then you will suffer the consequences. Since taunting you about the movie seems to be fun for her, one option is to take a break from online, gather your thoughts, calm down, make a concrete plan and return online with a social media campaign with your new tone when the movie lands. Everyone who has challenged AA knows this is a very hard road to take. You have certainly done more than most in this battle and it is a hard one physically and psychologically and it will take its toll if you are not careful. You must take care of yourself and family first. AA is dying on its own and there are many other people in the battle to stop the AA nonsense, so Nil Bastardum Carborundum.

    • Hi Massive,

      I am so sorry this is happening to you. I am wondering if contacting the police is appropriate. You are a celebrity and unfortunately you now have a celebrity stalker. πŸ™

      Perhaps a ‘cease and desist?’ Is appropriate?

      Librarian

          • Steve- I suggest you reach out to a non 12 step therapist. Read some good books,We have a resource page at the top on the Home Page. and maybe go online to Smart recovery, SOS, Moderation, Hams Harm Reduction, or LifeRING. Smart Has daily online meetings. Hams has daily chat meetings.

            We are not professionals and it sounds like you may need more then this blog for help in your life right now.

            Seek Professional help.

    • Is this about Clara, if I may ask? Clara I have tangled with a few times but jeez, being stalked by someone with a head full of AA and is a true believer is some scary sh$t. Be safe, be careful….guarded but not paranoid. I guess you are a celebrity in a way of the anti AA movement – you have made yourself public (talk about being dedicated and brave!!!!!) with face and name and background. You have a following and are gathering more traction with this as you go along…..given the nutty nature of AA and it’s followers in general, I think it’s not surprising that someone might stalk you. Scary sh$t though. I can see where it’s frustrating on an online basis but I’m also glad to hear that it’s online only. You of course know how sick firsthand some AA’s are…..sounds like you are dealing with a real “winner” here. My only advice is that when this person rants on and on about how great AA is or whatever their spiel is – they are showing others and solidifying for others that AA is sick and leaving it is a smart and sane move. Keep on keeping on, Monica – you are having an impact. Don’t let some troll get you down – look at all the support you’ve got beyond this one BS troll.

  26. I have gone, a few years back when it happened on OPF. I think spj has the right idea for now. Thank…both of you .

    • There is something highly suspicious about Susan/CB12/whatever. The multiple names, the profile picture changes, the constant online life and the types of posts over time. He/She/It has been honing their online verbal skills for some time now and is adept at manipulation and aversion. It is a skill.

      Online is so weird it could actually be Jerry/Mondotuna in new multiple personas. Only one person knows the deal and that is her/it. At the very minimum the person is an intelligent deviant with good written debate and language skills. He/She/It could very well be a sociopath just playing with anyone that comes into her web. A further guess is he/she/it has had at least one mental breakdown and it was probably substantial. The inability to see her own criticism is most likely from some sort of severe mental trauma. Her mind is shut off from seeing anything else. That is more than AA brainwashing, it has another source and that source was a huge deal to her brain. Hence, the deviance. Simply don’t engage her – literally. Do not respond to her twisted logic and taunting because that plays right into her sick narrative. She gets off on it or she wouldn’t be online everywhere this issue is playing out. To add, she probably thinks she is on a mission at some level. Like it is her purpose to defend AA from those that would take away what saved here life…

      Steven Slate did a great piece here http://www.thecleanslate.org/truth-about-addiction-threatens-recovering-addicts/

      When people say “AA saved my life” we view it as a statement in past tense. The current tense version in their mind is ” Without AA, I will die” . They defend AA from that posture, not the first one. Hence, they think at some level they are fighting for their life. Our fight is simply a fight for the right thing – to knock AA from its pedestal and get real about recovery issues so truly effective solutions can take its place. To them, it is much, much more than that and it produces people like Susan/CB12/Whatever. And probably will as long as it is allowed to exist.

  27. These so-called humble spiritual mature steppers certainly turn the exact opposite when their religion is challenged. Sad brain-washed fools.

    • I have a lot of anger issues. I can’t seem to find the outlet for them. I feel welcome here in this place. Unlike other places I’ve gone.

  28. I understand the anger and frustration you guys are feeling I had them in the rooms of a.a. and it was a good thing I suppose because people in the rooms where terrified of me lol so I never got anyone trying to help me in the years I was there they new exactly not to approach me many came up and said to me at my first year sober that they just knew not to approach me. I had a sign of do not approach lol but i eventually got a sponsor about 16/17 month ago. I was an angry young man 16/17 month ago but i decided to leave a.a cause its a load of SHITE. Hypocrites, Contradictions bashing my religion. There is enough trouble where i come from about religion. But I dont ram mine down peoples throat. Being insane and powerless nah I think I will keep my stickin thinkin got me out alot of scrapes aswell. i dont need anyone running my life but I have always said it No one and nothing can takes away your instincts. I dont wanna talk about my drinking or dugging anymore to be honest I can hardly remember it lol. cheerz

  29. It was being constantly being reminded of the past, a past I’d left behind but wasn’t allowed to forget. Hearing old using & drinking stories over n over was mind-numbingly boring, the past is always present in those rooms. I thought how the hell can I move on in my life if this was the case?! Being brainwashed that I was powerless & insane almost destroyed & ended my life. The total negation of my Self was almost complete until I decided to trust my instincts,anger & doubts about Wilsons horseshit. All the qualities that a Human Being has to survive,grow & prosper such as instinct, thought process, reasoning & compassion for one;s self etc are looked on as “sin’s”

    • Thank you for sharing your experience. I had a lot of issues and still do. But your story has helped me as I see that you are now a happy well adjusted individual and you did that by trusting instinct. I hope that I get there someday too!

      Thanks!

      • Hey Steve, you will get there believe in yourself and you will. I went into a.a a catholic I didnt believe I needed converted to anything. Someone said that to me in a meeting a few week ago. I said I didnt have a problem with god and he said yeah thats why you kept going back out drinking lol. imagine that haha. Thats when I realised that it aint about getting sober its about getting converted and all the other shit that goes with it. What I needed was FAITH AND BELIEF IN ME!!!! thats when I thought FUCK EM I’M OFF!!!. Moment of clarity haha. Hope maybe sum of what I said helped.

        All the best dude πŸ™‚

    • Yeah I feel you its the most depressing place ever listening to everyones negativity. I hope you get better and move on from that nonsense. You have also left your drinking life behind and GOOD FOR YOU!!!. I have found volunteering with people in addiction services where I live and the people that use that service dont want 12 step and dogma. I found it to be a great experience so far and it aint a means to keep me sober. Other things keep me sober like my mum who finally doesnt have to put up with a drunk for a son lol. I want to move on with my life too and you’re right you cant do that in a.a.

      I wish you the best take care of yaself:)

  30. Told I was sick & would die if I ever drank again. Check.
    13 stepped. Check.
    Inundated with daily sexist touches & “baby, sweetie, hottie, hot, sexy” comments daily. Check.
    Stalked by 5 men in less than a year. Check.
    Isolated from normal friends. Check.
    Had my anonymity broken many times. Check.
    Experienced depression and gas lighting for months but was told it was my disease. Check.
    Witnessed jokes about rape, racism, gender identity and homosexuality in meetings. Check.

    After 17 months of sobriety, I just want out. I want to feel ok again. The reality of my addiction has nothing on the suffering I had to endure daily from this program of help.

    I feel so lost.

    • Hey Kelly hows ya? hope you feel a bit better. I have left a.a and am about the same amount time sober as yourself. I understand how you feel to some extent I didnt endure what some people have in the rooms of a.a probably because I’m in the U.K although things like that do happen in a.a in this country but not as prevalent by the looks of it as in the states also I am a guy not many people wanted to even say anything to me in a.a out of their fear coz I was an angry young guy and let everyone know it in there plus i didnt have to deal with any sexist comments ect it happens mostly to women . I dont mean that flippantly either there is a lot of vulnerable people in the rooms of a.a that need helpand get abused and riduculed and its WRONG!!!!. So there wasnt much they could do to get me to buy that shit I have always went by my gut and by the looks of it you have to and YOU SHOULD BE PROUD OF YOU!!!!! I suppose I have been lucky I eventually got a sponsor who was for getting sober not dogma. I consider him a friend. But there wasnt many in there that were my friends. I wish you the best I hope you stay sober or you do you if you get my drift lol. I’m not going to give any advice on what you should do coz I aint qualified to give advice and plus I dont know you. Do whatever you have to do to get better.

      All the best and take care of yourself πŸ™‚

    • Hi Kelly
      Welcome! Yes sad stuff going on in AA. Have you checked out Smart Recovery, Hams Harm Reduction or Moderation Management? Or SOS….

    • Hi, you’re not lost, you are waking up. It is always a little disorienting in the beginning… I can tell you are smart and a bit sassy.. stay on an empowerment path and you’ll be fine… Go here first –

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kxSrPD__BA

      Then here –

      http://www.hamsnetwork.org/

      Then here –

      http://www.smartrecovery.org/

      Then come back to this site and tell us what you learned. You are one of our new teachers. We need your story to help us learn.

  31. Hi kelly, well you are certainly intelligent to be aware of what you saw & what happened to you. Stay strong & know that is your reality because those sick people in the rooms will try and gaslight you into believing you are wrong and try and get you to see your parts in all that. They will try to make you feel guilty about yourself so hold on to the truth. Feeling lost I can relate to as I too felt lost as they almost stripped away my Self & left me depressed & suicidal. Trust your instinct,feelings & awareness & you will be ok. It is a horrible place to be I know but getting out is better than going in regarding that cult.

  32. Tom Cruise Scientology Video – ( Original UNCUT ): https://youtu.be/UFBZ_uAbxS0

    Replace the word ethics with doing the steps and the word scientology with alcoholics anonymous and wow! Especially the end where you are either in or you are out .. It’s not spectators…. Reminds me if saying at the hall I went ….. There are people in AA and there people around AA .. Do you wanna be in or around. Making you think you aren’t in it even when you were doing THE DEAL…. Ugh

  33. A lot of steppers wearing the label “Alcoholic” with chest-bursting pride while calling people who question or leave AA “Not Real Alcoholics”. Fucking retards!!!

  34. Most of this stuff is true, applied to different people and at different times, in every group I’ve ever been in. It’s pretty standard fare, I’d say. It’s a haven for sociopaths that wriggle their way up the reptilian pecking order and end up dominating every group. I don’t think there are many exceptions. I haven’t attended in many years. I don’t do gross generalizations and here, I have to look to my left and right, just like I did in AA and ask myself, “Do I agree with this shit?” I don’t. You lump them all in a bag and spew vitriol. They’re just a bunch of folks, largely in denial of their mental illness, in need of solutions other than what’s being offered to them there. I don’t hate them. I think the most accurate criticisms are the deadliest. I always tell people, “If you really want to hurt me, tell me the truth. Don’t waste your time slinging absurd insults. Find something really, horribly wrong with me, and let me know about it. If it’s true, it will hurt like a mother-fucker.” “Everybody doesn’t “always,” and nobody ever “nevers.”” Can I quote myself? You can wag your fingers at all of them and kick them in the shins, but you’re just being petulant and getting nowhere. Two things: Really describe, anecdotal events of their crimes and there are many. Everything I read here, I have seen. It’s all true. Second: Proffer an alternative other than shrinks and drugs. Therapy is good but one size doesn’t fit all in that way does it? I’m an addict. I can’t get loaded. I haven’t been in AA for a very, very long time and their big bad boogie man never came for me. I’m still clean. It was a lie. I’m in therapy finally. I should’ve been a long time ago, but in the instance of my own illness, they didn’t know anything about it until the last decade or so. They are still developing therapies. No one was even diagnosing it. I always got a clean bill of health from Shrinks. They were wrong. Anyway… that’s my two cents. I like you. Don’t let me piss you off, or do. That’s ok too.

  35. I want to add. I’m a Democratic Secular Humanist, an Agnostic with wild suspicions, and Jungian Synchronicity is as close as I’m going to get to whatever it is they’ve got going on. I chose AA over NA because I cannot abide enforced conformity. Street level AA, was, of necessity, considerably more egalitarian and respectful of personal boundaries than NA. That was my experience. Don’t get inside my hula-hoop, my personal space and demand physical contact, as in NA. I never did make the transition to the “Skirts and Sweaters” meetings. I could go but would get such a slow burn going on, I’d want to leave early and slash tires on my way to the car. That shit is crazy. If it’s OK to be talking to yourself, unkempt, tootheless and only there for the coffee, because it’s raining outdoors… well, then it’s safe for me. That was my attitude.

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