CBS 48 HOURS – Re RUN of THE SOBER TRUTH Episode Saturday -January 2- interviews Monica Richardson and The 13th Step film- The Karla Brada Murder in Santa Clarita, CA

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I feel really blessed and appreciate so much that CBS 48 Hours did a piece on the Karla Brada Murder. With the Help of Gabrielle Glaser and the Producer’s at CBS 48 Hours, they saw that something about the court ordering of violent offenders to AA is a recipe for disaster and in this case…murder.

Join us Saturday Night— Live on Social media and on FACEBOOK for the show ——-CBS 48 Hours.  Let your thoughts and opinions on the subject of dangers in AA and it’s culture be known.

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115 thoughts on “CBS 48 HOURS – Re RUN of THE SOBER TRUTH Episode Saturday -January 2- interviews Monica Richardson and The 13th Step film- The Karla Brada Murder in Santa Clarita, CA

  1. I wasn’t able to watch this in it’s entirety the first time around, but I will make sure to watch it this time around.

  2. Great news! Maybe some AA members that actually try to be rigorously honest will come forward to confirm it is generally a bad idea to court-order violent criminals into AA where they anonymously mix with other people that are at a vulnerable point in their lives.

  3. It was reported on an anti site as having been decided. Since it was heard in November, it seems a decision should have been handed down by now. Any idea when that might happen?

      • Massive, I remember reading online several months ago that AA’s lawyers had dropped AA as a client for whatever reason – doesn’t look good for AA’s case if this is true…..I wish the case would just get through the courts with AA losing…..

      • Doesn’t mean it is the right or wrong answer either at this dragging stage. 🙂 no news is just that..no news,

      • Hey Barbara- why so interested….What’s you beef? Making money from AA and court ordering.. Are you a GSR or do you work for AA in NYC?

        DO you own a sober living or a rehab?

        • Same reason you are interested. The decision would make for good discussion as it includes why many of your suggestions are not possible or necessary. (snip)

          • That is only according to you. Until the outcome is official there is little point in believing you. You have been banned what 3 times. Yet you fail to pick up the clue that you are not welcome and more importantly no one actually gives a damn what you have or haven’t done. Even if the outcome is as you think it is people will still get harmed in the rooms of AA. Some will be killed. Some will be sexually abused some will be financially scammed some will commit suicide. Why because AA did nothing to help it,s members stay safe properly. Despite these things happening already.Have a look at what happened to Tracy White. This is the stark reality of the mess that is AA but hey your sober so what does that matter.

            • Oh GOD – the Tracy White Story is one of the worst things I have ever witnessed. SO sad. What a nice guy. They played him. They were into Satanic ritualistic vampire ism. He was playing the I am an addict card when they arrested him in Pennsylvania.

  4. Okay whatever your nom de plume is for today..just keep posting my friend no need for me to try your doing a good enough job yourself. You really need to get over whatever is happening for you. It might be worth considering just for a minute that whatever you say here is largely irrelevant in the wider shame of things. Nor do you have any idea of what anyone is doing outside of this particular blog, which is why I am concerned that you really believe the things you write are true. I wont even entertain the last sentence of your post, again take a moment to think through what you wrote. Once again happy new year and best wishes, I’m sure in many respects your’re probably a decent person but on this one it seems that you might have the wrong end of the stick.

      • Its okay- With this airing there will be many trolls coming here. I will be online all night as I watch it live. I may suggest you also go on FACEBOOK CBS 48 Hours Page and like it and post live as it airs.

        • I don’t use Facebook, however I watched the documentary when it originally screened and all I can say is I actually shed a tear. I cant remember how long out of AA I was but it was really the icing on the cake and for me, I just found the whole set of circumstances a sorry mess, in relation to the events that surrounded her untimely passing. My hope is that somehow there is really just a simple recognition and implementation by AA that some measures are put in place to protect individuals it really isn’t rocket science but the response is deafening in it’s seemingly self aggrandized arrogance. I hear what is said about people being saved thanks to AA etc etc however these people are alive, no issue. If people are being put at risk as is likely the case with court ordering criminally prosecuted individuals then it needs to be addressed.

          One death is one too many and failure to act is to accept and that erodes any modicum of moral standing,common decency and simply put, human value on life . AA is there to help with alcoholism and is not, as far I can tell in anyway an offender rehabilitation service.That really is the bottom line. Perhaps there is too much cotton wool in too many of AA’s senses for any common or indeed spiritual sense to shine.

          Happy new year to you all and be safe in 2016.

          Please feel free to add this on the fb thread if you like(not this bit though, that would be weird)

  5. This case it the tip of an ICEBERG called AA and Predators.

    I have spoken to a National reporter who got a DUI and he calls AA “RAPE CULTURE!”

    All over the country in every city, Judges are mandating both violent and sex offenders who play the I am addict card to AA. Even though AA is not a professional environment nor is is safe. Then they send innocent young teens and twenty somethings to AA for blowing .08 and are not one iota alcoholic !

  6. You guys are out of your minds, you twist everything to what you want to believe, the truth is quite another matter. I can do the same but the results would be as useless as yours. Sweet dreams though!

    • There really isnt any twisting going and that is a poor argument on your behalf claiming people to be out of their minds it has little effect if that is the intention. As seems to always be the case and not entirely isolated to your post there seems to be this kind of pokerish holding back of some as yet unheard of truth, perhaps if it so important you might like to actually say what it is..or can we not handle the truth ?

  7. As a recovering chronic alcoholic with 18+ yrs sobriety I would have never and I repeat never got sober without AA. Sure my view is slanted but there are predators at workplaces, on the bus, at the movies, at shopping centers, etc. You get my drift? I am afraid if I was a woman thinking about getting sober this documentary would steer me clear of AA. However, if it would not steer me clear of workplaces, on the bus, at the movies, at shopping centers, etc. I thought this documentary was a slam on AA – think of the millions of people AA has helped and the very small percentage it has hurt.

    • Okay good stuff on 18 years good to hear aa is a solution for you. In respect of the program. There are many negative things about aa also and an informed public is able to make a choice based on all the available evidence positive and negative. Of course you will be bias towards aa, most people are for a variety of reasons. Thinking about crime incidents occurring everywhere yes it does. Placing individuals with the capacity to do harm in an intimate space with potential victims does mot happen everywhere. That is why the risk is increased as there are opportunities for grooming, gaining personal details etc that makes crime perpetration that more difficult. Not to mention the step work may also be triggering for needs not best placed by a non professional quasi religon. Who is to say that this may harm someone not even remotely connected to aa. Already using a risk template I hope to have clarified that it is not just a case of it happens everywhere so really its all right, more a spiritual opportunity to potentially reduce harm. Lastly you have absolutely no way of quantifying the ‘few’ that have been hurt and so far most of the statistics tend to refute this claim, nonetheless it is a pleasant anecdote to think of. Best wishes to you and hoping 2016 is a great year for you and your fellows. Lets hope more people find a recovery path that reflects their needs in the safest evidence based and accountable approaches available.

      • outofthewoods- Can I thank you with a big internet hug !

        What a great response…. and I want to thank all the bloggers here who are wonderful writers and super cool ex steppers. 🙂 Smile!

      • You are certainly right on one score, out. AA’s stepwork certainly CAN reveal problems better suited for a professional to address. That is what happened to me and I pursued it. No one says that AA is the only thing a person needs. Alcoholism or self medication is generally a symptom of other things.

        • hey Shelby I am also right about the certain types of individuals being opportunists or groomers having worked in forensics for a few years. It was an important part of the job to understand that some individuals are very adept at manipulation, splitting and control but with the right approach can find fulfilment in their lives.

          I chose professional treatment over AA as follow up to said “suggestion”. I do find it a curious phenomena amongst some individuals in the program that claim no one says X, yet that is not what is meant. Often times these things may be said but in my experience they carry such subterfuge or so loaded as to it being meaningless and obvious in intent. This I think feeds into the self fulfilling prophecy that alternatives will be bound to end in failure of some description, as is my experience when I left. Hats off nudge nudge wink wink, no what I mean? Often what get gets said out here is not a reflection of conversation within the rooms, I am sure you can attest to this, and others both having left and in the meetings. However that does not mean it is wrong in and of itself,although all anyone needs to do is keep abreast of addiction blog commentators to find the evidence to back up the above.

          I agree that SUD is linked to “other things” but I disagree with the notion of spiritual disease. As person who has also recovered from depression I can say in my experience it certainly felt at times that there was indeed a hole in the soul. In less enlightened years what is now a treatable illness has had its fair share of opinion up to and including something being wrong spiritually. There are still woo merchants that believe this even today!

          Sadly there are only correlations at this early stage of addiction research rather than definitive causes and it is healthy to acknowledge this but I will posit that it is a combination of biopsychsocial issues and that these features present across a spectrum. Did you know that there is a possible correlation between SUD and ADD/ADHD. Perhaps this may go some way towards an explanation of restless irritable and discontent, a subjective complaint in many a share.

          It’s such a wide ranging and fascinating but at times tragic subject. I look forward to the day when everyone can sing from the same hymn sheet in relation to SUD so, as stated before, people get the right treatment by the right profession at the right time, according to their needs and not the approach.

        • Substance Use Disorder in how they are calling it in the DSM V now. Personally I like Alcohol and Drug over use issues. But the DSM V called it Alcohol Dependency and Alcohol Abuse —- which for me is much clearer description. As we have found out that many of us here ( not all ) were NEVER even dependent. It takes alot of booze on a DAILY basis to become dependent on alcohol. So I was not- I was a teenager who was abusing it as many other posters were as well.

          Some here never were in AA or NA but lives were threatened by AA and NA members in their stupid meetings in public places like parks.

          Gabrielle Glaser was never one but felt compelled to investigate what was going on in our society and found this old quasi religious self help pods dominated the scene, our courts and our rehabs. WHY were we still not using science?

          Then Lance DODES who worked at Harvard Med for 30 years wrote a book called THE SOBER TRUTH and with a three of us , The Atlantic article by Gabrielle released a shit storm of criticism which was sorely needed towards Alcoholics Anonymous.

          I know it from the inside- and frankly— was tired of all the Hollywood Films and TV shows flagrantly promoting AA in a dishonest way.

    • john- no one is court ordering anyone to the workplaces, on the bus, at the movies, at shopping centers, etc.

      you— you— you get my drift?

      • Depends how you want to read that. I know people who have been court ordered to get employment, thus being part of a workplace, giving up driving so alternative transportation is necessary, which could include a bus, and I was fondled in a crowd in line for a movie called Star Wark decades ago. I wanted to pull a wide slap to be sure I got him (or her). His point is that there are opportunities everyone for someone who is looking for it.

    • “here are predators at workplaces, on the bus, at the movies, at shopping centers”

      Firstly, there are MORE violent predators in AA than in those other places, because AA recruits through the courts and prisons.

      Secondly, those are all public places, not secretive church basements where no one even knows last names.

      Thirdly, people are forced or prodded into AA by ignorant family, bosses or court officials who believe it is a safe place.

  8. It is unreasonable to try and hold AA responsible for the actions of two of it’s members. If anyone is responsible it is the perp and perhaps the treatment center who sent these women to a AA hall where known convicts congregate. We have to use common sence when it comes to the person in the seat next to you. She may have met an abuser in some other setting, it wasn’t the places’ fault, it was the two people involved.
    This show talked about the 13th step as though it is an actual step of recovery, when in fact it is heavely frownded on and people are discourged from entering into romantic relationships for the 1st year. But there is only so much peer preasure can do.
    AAs doors are open to all who seek recovery but it can not nor should it controle who comes through its doors. If it did no one would get in. It was tried early on ( in the 1930s ) and nearly killed AA.
    AA is not a cure for all the worlds problems and can not fix people or their mental/emotional issues. It is a spiritual program designed to help people recover from alcoholism by using the 12 Steps. And nowhere in those steps does it say it’s ok to hurt other people. Rather, it suggests that people make ammends to people they’ve harmed and to confront their own defects of charector.
    I think this law suit is way out of line. It’s a case of misdirected anger. We are all responsible for the choices we make in life and often don’t get ” do overs “, we have to learn to live with our mistakes.Blaiming others doesnt change anything.
    I think the right person was punished for the brutal and cowardly crime he commitited.I don’t think this so called 13th step is as systematic as the show portrayed and both sexes are involved in this behavour. Not just men on women but women hit on men as well.
    .

    • So why is AA the only thing used as a dumping ground. And it fails 95 % of the time when people are forced to go. There are 6 other free options.

      Are you aware how infested AA is an institution in America?

      Hollywood promotes an AA from the 1980’s —–

      Its a big bad issue and AA needs to get it’s butt- out of our courts, our of the FAA, out of the Board of Nursing , out of rehabs….

      Its an antiquated self help pods that judges are sending violent criminals to a SOBER Living ??? like a flop house ….who is paying for that.

      Also are you aware how much money they make in AA NY? $350 k for the General Service Manager

      How big their pension is?

    • We will have to see what happens Dennis, life isn’t fair sometimes. We all know that the 13th step is not a step that is why it is called the 12 steps. You would be hard pushed to find anyone that would say there are 13 steps in a survey. Common sense is great but as I posted elsewhere you really underestimate how some types of offenders actually are able to do what they do, that is why when it happens it is often a shock.

      AA does indeed pride itself on anyone anytime and in principle this is a noble thing to do but again within an almost anarchic group of little regulation and inch to some may well be a yard and is very diffficult to monitor as well there is no right or wrong way in AA, allegedly. Simply having a clear pan in place in case things do go wrong where the member is protected is really not logically that difficult a concept to grasp, surely.

      Your opinion on the whether you think it is misdirected anger is at best lamentable here is a something perhaps you could read around minimazation..

      http://stoprelationshipabuse.org/educated/avoiding-victim-blaming/

      The 13th stepping is very real for any individual who has been the victim of this apparent abuse. Even if it is just one person it is too many. It really is that simple.

      • Sorry, posted the wrong thing in the wrong place.

        Dennis isn’t the only one who feels that this is misdirected anger. AA didn’t tell this woman to hook up with anyone. It is generally suggested that they NOT hook up with anyone at all while dealing with new sobriety.

        Including AA is really almost the least of it. This was included in a suit against Eric Earle. There is nothing to gain by suing him. AAWS is a publishing company and Monica is serving as the defenses sole “expert” in AA despite that no one in AA gets asked for money. I notice in her statement there wasn’t an attached exhibit of such an asking.

        • AAWS according to AA GSO literature also has contact with local groups, groups in treatment and prisons,overseas members and oversees the aa website as well as yes publishing literature which it was set up to do way back in 1930’s. This info can be found quite easily by conducting a simple google search and is freely available for anyones perusal.

          Money was requested by the treasurers of several meetings I attended as there were concerns that the rents would not be paid and the meeting would close. Probably not isolated either.

          Minimizing as just misdirected anger on behalf of parents whose daughter was murdered isn’t acceptable, no matter how you try to defend it by claiming others agree. That just makes the others equally despicable too.

          Its probably wise to be aware that the person you are sitting next to may pose a risk, but equally make sure that the other person sat next to you wont blame you if something bad happens to you, just to be sure.

          Also to reiterate, the reason bad things happen to people sometimes is because there certain types of individuals who are able to use a variety of manipulations and control techniques to ensnare un suspecting vulnerable victims no matter how “street wise” The abuser will use all manner of techniques to intimidate and control the victim up to and including physical violence, emotional black mail as well as being quite adept at appearing for all intents and purposes with it and likeable. Again this can reinforce the abuse for the victim who will not be able to speak out, particularly in a toxic environment where it is seemingly acceptable to foster a blame culture. With the court mandating of potentially violent criminals to AA as part of sentancing the risks may be increased significantly. There appears to be no risk management plan to protect AA members nor are there confidential procedures by which members can flag up concerns without fear of rebuttal in the vain attempt to protect AA as a whole, this would seem to include victim blaming and minimization in order to achieve this aim.

        • AA is not a publishing company- The AA General Service Board, INC has all the money and power. GO do your research. we already have.

          The General Service Board of Alcoholics Anonymous INC,

          trolling – get off the site

    • “We are all responsible for the choices we make in our lives.”

      Nonsense!

      If a judge orders me to go to a brainwashing cult (AA), and will send me to prison if I don’t, then I have no choice. As an average person, I have no defenses against the Frank Buchman/Bill Wilson mind control techniques.

      On aside not, it seems like the AA trolls have heard about this blog.

  9. Get your facts straight antis, AA never called alcoholism a spiritual “disease” – you can source it to treatment centres and insurance schemes. Read the book and be straight on your information. If it is not accurate it carries no weight. Your twist on truth and fiction is laughable.

    • Please go to your nearest court house and ask where they do the DUI hearings. Enjoy your Day as they send everyone there. Then go to your nearest traffic DUI class and interview the owner how they handle DUI’s and what is required.

      See you later. I am sure you are not leaving AA so go ahead and leave the blog …………NOW !

    • Selene- I also don’t like your tone——-really—– coming to another persons blog and saying ” Get your facts straight antis,” —-

  10. I stayed up late Saturday night and made some comments on the 48 Hours Facebook page. It is just mind boggling to me that brainwashed Steppers still drink the Koolaid even when presented with a well researched story such as the one presented Saturday night. I did my bit by making a few comments but it seems to me that to effect real change will require successful lawsuits against AA. The Die Hard Steppers will not bow to the realities of AA it seems.

    • I was amazed at the way the victim was blamed arguments such as it takes 2 or she wasn’t working a program and many more. I cannot fathom what motivates individuals to seemingly accept this use these as vehicles of argument and sadly further attempt to scorn her parents for having the temerity to perhaps challenge and try and exact much needed change.Evidence suggests there is quite a strong concept of rape culture/ victim blaming, both validly tested concepts. There are studies to back it up. Luckily though there are resources that are making attempts to change this prevalent attitude and I’ve no doubt that many people will start to change if they haven’t begun so already, hopefully!
      See below, and again this is an actual thing and not some knee jerk reaction but based on many individuals experiences, it also attempts to explain why people struggle to digest abuse,

      http://stoprelationshipabuse.org/educated/avoiding-victim-blaming/

      There were a large proportion of responses that seemed to have many features of the list this resource and others provides and is for me further evidence that the role of AA and some of it’s members may have a contributing factor in enabling abusive relationships to take place. The traditions aren’t legally binding as far as I’m aware as they don’t seem to be linked in anyway to any particular legislation of any country and as such are a poor mechanism for safety, however I may be wrong and if this isnot true please let me know.

      Alls that can be done i to continue to provide information to hopefully educate, there will be more than enough people with half a brain to realise that continuing the abuse as was noted on the Fb comments, clearly justifies the shows findings.

      Lastly I did find it funny how so many were arguing the case for anonymity in the rooms by using their full names with personal pictures on the biggest social platform in the world, on what is clearly a very well subscribed channel, with potentially millions of visitors. Still there you go. Perhaps they might like to add the internet to the traditions (hides under desk, duck and cover!).

      Mind you when there are no rules or mechanisms in place at meetings or any clear guidance or consequences from AA itself rather than word of mouth or futile punitive measures such as being barred from one particular group, by members at group level then it is unsurprising that there is a world of ignorance towards abuse and acceptance of abusers behaviour as discussed above. Makes me sad sometimes.

      • I’ve never heard of a person being barred from a meeting for any reason whatsoever, and have never even seen a person removed, even if they are clearly drunk and belligerent or nodding off on heroin.

      • Yes the good ol suggestions..so the outcome was to add the internet to the traditions? afterall that is the spiritual foundation that aa tells no sorry merely suggests its members adhere i mean attempt to practice?

        • ..duck and cover was just a bit of irony btw, no need to be overly concerned. I guess in a way it is probably a good thing that people can see how backward thinking and acceptable victim blaming is in AA, portrayed by a lot of apparent members on the CBS 48hours fb site. Attraction rather than promotion of course. Any ways it was nice conversing with you best wishes and have a great sober 2016.

  11. Selene- Facts are that AA has been shrinking for the past 10 years. Many old timers like myself have already left. For many varied reasons.

    Meetings once filled with 300 younger persons, on Friday night in Westwood next to UCLA have 30 pp there now.

    This was the case even in West Hollywood and all over the country. Maybe you could watch my film and see for yourself the dangers that lie in AA.

  12. No one cares Selene again you seem to think you are doing the world a favour somehow and probably finding it entertaining too but remember we no longer subscribe to 12 step dogmatic faith healing woo so coming across all factoid is once again a waste of time. Keep coming back as you clearly want something we have.

  13. http://scholarship.law.stjohns.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1621&context=lawreview

    Kurtz was the guy who wrote the AA comes of age book so he knows his stuff..

    It was Oxford group “ego deflation” technique to motivate towards a spiritual experience or in other words essentially replacing one ego with another but calling it god instead.The Oxford group was pivotal in the creation of AA today, so it is the source of being able to say it is not in the BB.

    • Billy- So Stepper like that you would come to a Leaving AA blog and think you have the right to tell us what to do?

      We don’t want your Variety of “sober ” bullshit!

      • Billy,
        At over 60 years of age, if I haven’t grown up I probably never will. Since I haven’t had a drink since 2004, I also doubt that I will get any more sober than I am. In contrast to many of those folks active in AA, I don’t fear that I will have a “mental blank spot” and “slip”.

    • Billy- In guess you don’t know this-

      you cant tell other adults how to be , how to think, how to drink, or not drink. We are not in your stupid AA anymore and we are free to live our lives as we see fit.

      No don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. Banned— troll.

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