If AA meetings are Treatment for their “disease” then why not get some real help? Are these steps really enough? blogger ILLBEFREE says HELL NO!

freedom 1a great poster illbefree wrote this post this past January and I felt it needed to get more attention.

I asked my ex sponsor a couple of months ago if going to meetings was supposed to be the “treatment” for what she and AA kept insisting to me was “my disease”… She said, “Well, no…”

Yet and still she said I just had to keep going to meetings, praying and doing what she and my grand sponsor told me to do and then…suddenly…I would get my MIRACLE and God would lift the obsession with alcohol. She said we were POWERLESS as alcoholics over alcohol and all we could do is pray, obey and wait. WTF?

Hmmmm…. (http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-powerless.html)

I suspect that deep, deep down they do not really all REALLY believe all that BS.

If AA’s believe that alcoholism is a disease, why do they not believe it is requires real clinical treatment? Prayer is powerful; still, it is not TREATMENT for a DISEASE. Are they really so obtuse as to be utterly incapable of seeing this? It was in the back of my mind all along. But they just kept accusing me of stinking thinking that would eventually lead to my death.

“That thinking is going to kill you!” they often warned.

The anti-intellectualism of AA and the 12 Step Doctrine: (http://truetalesfromalcoholicsanonymous.wordpress.com/2008/01/23/the-anti-intellectualism-of-aa-and-the-12-step-doctrine/)

And the question I pose repeatedly is, if AA’s themselves sincerely BELIEVE that alcoholism is a disease over which the afflicted have absolutely NO POWER…why do people who have slips, relapses, etc. face such HARSH reactions from AA members, sponsors and old timers?

WHY?

Would one shun, punish, fire, criticize, and humiliate, etc. a person who had the disease called cancer for going out of remission? Of course not!

But AA’s kick the shyte of members who relapse… I know that first hand.

They refuse to look at the research. They refuse to update their literature and become educated on work is effective for those dealing with alcohol over use. They want only to fight their “devil” (a.k.a disease) with “the program” (a.k.a. made up religion).

Again, do they REALLY believe it is a disease?

And the fact that their PROGRAM does not help most people…which is a SURPRISE, being utterly brainwashed, in denial and insane, they refuse to accept.

What’s the big frickin SURPRISE?????

I stand confounded by their thinking or lack thereof.

This is why I got so much flack from my sponsors regarding my constant probing and research. I was FORBIDDEN (a.k.a. suggested) to continue to look up information online. Do they REALLY think they can control information in this, The Great Age of Information? They try. Why? In the face of Information, AA is a terminally moribund Beast. They sense it, if they don’t know it.

http://www.geocities.com/drugsandalcoholinfo/webpagesandpapers/mindcontroltactics.htm

Ignorance will no longer be bliss in The Information Age.

There is never any point for me to engage in discourse with religious people. They always fall back on miracles and magical thinking. I do have a deep and abiding faith in the benevolence of the Creator of All…but I will not have God relegated to a magician that we lay waiting and praying to solve for us what we have been given the POWER to solve for ourselves. Unfortunately, I fell for the lie that they were not religious initially. And I have paid for this quite dearly.

What I want to know is WHY our government and mental health professionals are failing to objectively examine the realities here and take appropriate action regarding this religion posing as treatment for alcohol and substance abuse. This is PERPLEXING beyond any reason…

I know it must all tie in with DOLLAR GREEN…

It just MUST!

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22 thoughts on “If AA meetings are Treatment for their “disease” then why not get some real help? Are these steps really enough? blogger ILLBEFREE says HELL NO!

  1. Thank you for re-posting that Massive. It has been a short time and yet in some ways it feels like it’s been a very long time since the after Thanksgiving when my ex sponsor called to I think slap my ass to bottom or kill me.

    I have learned a lot since then.

    I felt HORRIBLE just after that. I was emotionally and mentally devastated. She had every right to stop being my sponsor if that is what she wanted to do, but the way she did it was criminally abusive…well, at least it should be. Again, it’s not WHAT you do oft times, it’s HOW you do it.

    If anyone did to a client what she did to her sponsee, they would be sued, lose their license or at least face some type of recrimination. In AA, they do and say whatever they want. They answer to no one (save the god they make up for themselves). Therein lies the problem.

    I have been going to SMART Recovery meetings this month. I waited before going because I needed to be sure that I was sincerely desirous of going to any meetings at all.

    AA left me feeling like I can no longer trust people…but what is worse, I can’t always trust my own perceptions of things. I hate feeling invalidated. Being in AA invalidated me to myself. I am working to rebuild that sense of myself or some semblance of such.

    Am I right?

    Am I wrong?

    I am always asking myself that these days. Was my ex sponsor wrong? Was she right? Maybe I am such a horrible, mentally damaged person that I deserved to be treated that way…

    Those are the kinds of insecure thoughts emotional/mental victimization by unqualified AA sponsors can manifest in a person.

    I do not feel it is appropriate to hold my ex sponsors and other sponsors responsible for this. I do not honestly believe that the majority of them actually know what they are doing. They are troubled people who are given absolute CONTROL over other troubled people.

    SURPRIZE: Most often that scenario does not bode well.

    They take on the role of counselors to people in the beginning…but ultimately when they do harm to a person by working on emotional, mental, psychological & spiritual issues that they have NO QUALIFICATIONS to deal with…they will proudly say, “We are not therapists!!!”

    But see, that is the role they assume…but they call it something else. That is the foundation of all of AA; take EVERYTHING and call it SOMETHING else…then hide behind semantics while people’s hearts, minds, bodies and souls are played with like toys.

    Case in point: AA is a religion…but it calls itself, “spiritual not religious”

    Of course if they were not “religious” they would not have to make that distinction.

    It’s like when my grand sponsor told me to avoid beverages that stated on the label that they are “alcohol-free”. She said that the reason the manufacturers of such beverages had to state that is because there was a question as to what it was… and if there is a question–DON’T BUY IT!

    Funny she could not apply that logic to Alcoholics Anonymous.

    Anyway…

    It’s been almost 3 months.

    I am better…but a sadness lingers.

    AA has stolen a part of me. I am relieved and angry that I ever allowed this into my life.

    #lifeisalreadyhardenoughwithoutAAcomingtoscrewus

    Be well all.

    • illbefree- WOW this is deep girl…and so true. I feel bad for people I know as I watch them deprogram and when I read some of your stuff.
      Im so happy you found your way here. Both you and Sue are telling it like it is. Thank you. 🙂

  2. Illbefree,

    said; “If anyone did to a client what she did to her sponsee, they would be sued, lose their license or at least face some type of recrimination. In AA, they do and say whatever they want. They answer to no one (save the god they make up for themselves). Therein lies the problem.”

    Wow, I so agree with you. I think this is exactly why they become self righteous, holier than though and superior to their sponsee; that and time sober. They are never held responsible or accountable for serious mistakes they have made with a human beings life. They become numb to the fact that they may have hurt someone deeply (broken their spirit). How can they ever learn from their mistakes if it’s always someone elses fault. The other person didnt get it or they werent ready. Oh, and I forgot; Im only doing what worked for me. You know all the ways they will justify it, to turn it on you. Actually, they are to be pitied. Of course thats difficult until you work through it. What makes them so cold and angry? From what I have seen; anyone who believes everthing they hear in AA, seems to end up that way.

  3. My last comment: “From what I have seen; anyone who believes everthing they hear in AA, seems to end up that way.”

    Id just like to say; Im not convinced AA is completely responsible; but i believe addiction to the program perpetuates the problem. Personality disorders are considered to be powerless, acceptable and tolerated by the group. I dont know; isnt that enabling?

  4. Thanks Massive & Sue. I just dont know. I said sponsors are not responsible because they do not fully know what they are doing. CORRECTION: Alcoholics Anonymous… the AA sponsors/members & our society are responsible for all of this mess TOGETHER. Our society carries the greatest responsibility because this society chooses way to often to turn a blind eye. People are being humiliated, exploited, deceived, bullied, abused, raped and killed all for the sake of a religion masking itself as an alcohol treatment program that it is very easy to research & ascertain is largely INEFFECTIVE. What a terribly costly price to pay for some dogg shyt that some ol drunk plagarized from Oxford Group cult before failing his own damned “steps” while feeding intense addictions to smoking, sex ultimately leading to LSD & begging desperately for a fruckin drink on his deathbed! Any one who can suss this out & see AA and all its spawns for what they all are yet continue in it and to defend it…is sicker than the sickest SECRET!

  5. Most of my time in AA when I would hear: “If you want what we have” or “If you can find an easier softer way; I would think; Ya know I dont think I do want what you have and maybe it is possible for me to find another way. Of course I was intimidated and reluctant to say anything. Reason being is time after time, I would hear: Rarely have we seen a person fail who follows our path, you may be constitutionally incapable, one of the unfortunates. If you can find an easier, softer way and drink like a gentleman; we’ll take our hats off to you. I never saw any proof that anyone really believed that I could. That and much more insulting, confusing, patronizing dogma is thrown in your face from the beginning.

    If you personally choose to believe one persons words (Bill W.) and everything you here in AA; please dont pass it on. It’s very dangerous to individuals, who need desperately to take responsibility for their own lives. Some of us did not want to replace a harmful addiction with what we felt in our hearts was another. This blog is definitely not about revenge. Its about growing and moving on after our experiences in AA. Dont take it personal if AA suits you.

  6. Sue:

    Thanks!

    “Rarely have we seen a person fail who follows our path, you may be constitutionally incapable, one of the unfortunates. If you can find an easier, softer way and drink like a gentleman; we’ll take our hats off to you.”

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts on that. That statement is a particularly harmful one for a real person caught in the crosshairs of being an AA prospect/newcomer.

    They recite it with such snide, sanctimonious condescension. They know NOTHING. They are just mindlessly regurgitating bs from a book by a drunken, broke, dead plagiarizer trying to write a book to sell for money for himself and his friends.

    Making that statement is tantamount to them clicking their teeth with their forked tongues and whispering in your ear, “I wouldn’t do that if I were you….unless you are a terminally unfortunate, incapable idiot bent on going out there to die looking for a soft, easy fix that doesn’t exist!”

    “Rarely have we seen a person fail who follows our path…”
    They have not seen ANYTHING besides the view up their own pie holes going to all those meetings and reading those same lie after lies! Just because Bill W. wrote that shyt does not mean that no one can follow an alternate path and be well. Even that statement is abusive. It is like the abusive spouse who says, “No one else will ever want you if you leave me!”

    Gimme a break dogdamnit!

    “you may be constitutionally incapable, one of the unfortunates…”
    What kind of glib, utterly facetious, condescending monkey-shines is THAT! If you have a ‘constitution’ a.k.a. mind that renders you incapable of swallowing laced Kool-Aid and blatant printed garbage you are actually one of the FORTUNATE! You get to keep your mind and your life. Run!

    “If you can find an easier, softer way…”
    This is akin to schoolyard bullies daring someone to leave their stupid club and telling the bullied kid that he (she) is a ‘chicken’ for trying to find an easy, soft, chicken way. Easier! Softer! If they were honest they would admit that there will never be anything easy or soft about dealing with alcohol or drug issues. Spass-holes!

    “and drink like a gentleman; we’ll take our hats off to you…”
    What does “drink like a gentleman” even mean? This whole phrase is a dare by a bully. He/she is saying, “Go on! Try to find some help–I dare you. And if you do find help I will eat my hat! But I know you won’t…and you are about to DIE just for trying because as we all know… AA is the ONLY way!

    Liars!

    I can’t find the commenter talking about ‘revenge’ but I will say this.

    Our primary purpose here is not “revenge”. We are here to blog, support, connect, empower, WARN, communicate, save lives, educate and create a community of people who have survived AA and NA…

    Many of us have been harmed by AA and/or NA whether some random visitor here knows of how we were harmed or not. WE know what the F we have been through. What right does some random peck-hole have to judge us?

    And what if someone here does want revenge for being raped, abused, coerced and exploited? Those are crimes! What is wrong with wanting an organization and/or members of an organization that hurt us to pay?

    If you are here and you feel vengeful, it’s OK. You have a right to feel however you feel. If coming here and reading helps you, please keep coming. If posting is cathartic, post away. If you need more, that’s cool; there are so many non-AA support systems out there as quiet as it is kept. If you need help finding one that suits you, people in this community will share all they know. Right now, I am attending SMART. It is helpful.

    Emotions like anger, fear, resentment, disgust are valid human emotions even though AA teaches that we are not allowed to feel our feelings for fear of picking up, relapsing, dying.

    Feelings/ emotions are not RIGHT or WRONG; they just are. As long as you harm no one you can feel however you feel.

    AA harms people! And we have hundreds—perhaps thousands of accounts of people attesting to just that. Are all of those accounts false? Are people all over this country and all over the world just getting a stray hair across their asses just to get up and come online to make shyt up? Why don’t we write novels and get paid instead?

    We are working out Our Experiences and telling Our Truth. Anyone who doesn’t like it can stick a straw up it. AA and everyone who needs to visit an anti-AA site and criticize our community can kiss my sober suck hole!

    NO APOLOGIES!

    Everyone here who is angry, has a right to express it as long as he or she harms no one.

    Everyone here who is tired of going to dangerous meetings that do not help them to deal with addiction, has a right to keep going or to choose to STOP going.

    Everyone here who wants to say they hate AA or that they even hate AA members, sponsors and/or Bill charlatan-ass W. is free to say so. There are no sponsor/handler/parents to whip your tail for talkin!

    If someone LOVES AA so damned much, I was in it long enough to know that they ought to be reading the BB (bs), going to a meeting, connecting with the fellowship, doing an amends or calling their fluckin sponsor.

    Nothing pro-AA’s post here is going to destroy this anti-AA site or any other. In fact, more sites like this are being created EVERYDAY because the 12 step racket consistently creates victims EVERYDAY…and some of those victims REALLY DO WANT REVENGE….

    So?

    If anyone reading this needs help creating her or his own simple blog and cannot figure out how to do it…let me know. I will help anyone who contacts me if they let me know this week. ( I am always very busy and burning my candle at both ends…but I can pause here and there…  )

    I do offer this as my Gift in honor of all the insane freaks who belong to AA but continue to visit anti-AA sites and post SMACK.

    Azzholes!

    They’ve INSPIRED me…

    Every single person who leaves AA with something to say or just needing an outlet should have their own damned blog!

    Now that would get the world’s attention.

    So…if you need help starting your WordPress blog or Facebook page let me know.

    I can only start a limited number due to having to make a living so hit me up soon if you want my help.

    (I will get ya STARTED…you can do the rest which will just be to post your thoughts and experiences as you wish. I know posting my thoughts was very healthful for me. Here is what I wrote just a VERY short time after I left: http://illbefree1.wix.com/illbefree#!illbefreeordie/czsb )

    Anyway…Want help getting started? Message me on my blog: http://illbefreeordie.wordpress.com/

    FlUCK AA!

    And I don’t care what anybody thinks of me for saying so!

  7. Hello IllBeFree.

    Thank you for acknowledging some acknowledging my comments. . I truly appreciate your style of expanding on some of the points I made; without holding back. (o:

    Your talented way with words is a real asset to the blog. Life another blogger said; “If you pro-aa’s dont want what we have, than take what you want and leave the rest. If thats to difficult, just LEAVE THE BLOG.

    Thanks again Ill, be well, Sue

    • Aa really really really fucking confuses people .I’ve been trapped in there Moran’s programme four years and I’m struggling to get out.

      • hello patrick..
        thats how i am when doing aa confused.along with other not so good states of mind and emotions..i get the same or similar when im not doing aa, but around abuseive violent heavy drug or drink users outside of aa.

        however outside of aa it is easier to keep away from people that make me feel that way.

        • I have been totally out for a year now and find ‘earth’ people to be more positive and less afraid of life. They seem to take all the little things in stride with a laugh. There isn’t a lot of laughing in aa – just self-degrading. I personally found it demoralizing and sad.

          The philosophy of never getting well is a depressing and hopeless way of life – yet these are the mainstay of AA.

          Yes I believe in abstinence and/or moderation but I also believe a persons soul does not have to be torn down to achieve these goals.

          Librarian

          • there was a time when i would have said, “i got some good from aa ,it helped a bit.” however this isn’t right anymore.

            the tearing out of my soul,the soul surgery,whatever it was. that did me more harm than good.
            my anger has died down now,im glad i exploded a little,on that troll im glad i didnt repress it.

            the repression of anger, and some other human emotions,the accepting everything. infact all of it,has just been damaging to me.

            haveing to share all my past with others in there did not do me or anyone,else any good.
            im forgetting aa now and those i met there.
            however i dont want to forget completely, incase i get drawn back into comunicating with them again..

            seems to me when im in touch with any of them or go there i just end up wanting to get away from them.

            im the same with some other people too, not just them..
            i cant be bothered anymore, to try to mix with people i dont feel comfortable around.

            im too old, ill and tired and have been through enough in my life, to be bothered with people i just cant hack.

            all i want is a few friends i like being with, a life partner im happy to be with.and a hassel free life.
            and to enjoy the time i have left on earth.

      • Hi Patrick,

        I’ve been out of AA for a good few months now and have seen how steppers regard their fellow alcoholics or addicts close up.

        I help out at a cooking group where one day one of the people reported that some of her belongings went missing.A stepper then piped up and lovingly reminded us that we are dealing with alcoholics/addicts and they can’t be trusted to leave peoples belongings alone. In other words alcoholics are no better than habitual criminals and can not be trusted. I was furious at him.

        I came accross this attitude all too frequently in those rooms.

        Such a negative stereotyping of people who really just wish to get their lives back on track can not be healthy.

        Check out SMART recovery. It is not perfect. At least it is more realistic. There are a wide range of non-AA books and websites that are worth investigating.

        Although I drink sparingly, I now realise that although alcohol doesn’t solve any problems, neither does AA.

  8. Hi Sue! THANK YOU… Yes, you are very clear. When the content is SOLID as yours always is that’s all that matters.

    Connecting here with you, Massive and all of the other bloggers is like a life line for me just newly leaving AA. I went from 4 to 5 meetings a week, calling my sponsor at least once a day, 2 AA sponsors (regular one and a “grand” sponsor), 1 temp. sponsee, 3 dear AA friends and a phone full of associates from the “fellowship” whom I called semi-regularly to ZERO.

    That was devastating for me.

    Talking to people who have never been in AA or any 12 step program is ok…but they can not really relate to what we have experienced. Bless their hearts, they do try.

    The isolation can be deafening.

    I think that is why many, many people stay. They have become (as planned) dependent on the social aspect of the program and they do not want to lose that. I know I did not want to lose my sponsor. I think the main reason I kept trying to get it was so that she would be pleased with my behavior…

    Doesn’t that sound sick?

    It disgusts me. I sound like some kind of developmentally stunted potato person.

    I am glad I am out of AA.

    YOU ROCK SUE!
    😀

  9. IllBeFree,

    The only important thing to remember is; there are some people you can not please. They very well may look at it as a weakness. I see nothing wrong with pleasing and giving pleasure to someone you care about, that cares about you. If they dont care about you, thats when your trying to please them, is unhealthy. As I recall, in AA; “people pleasing” is another symptom of an alcoholic. Geez, Once you allow yourself to be identified over and over; what part of your individual personality isnt a symptom (that the powers to be dont agree with) of the disease???? I found there was no winning. I think people pleasing can be a problem for anyone who isn’t careful, who their attempting to please. I think trying to please a sponsor is unhealthy people pleasing. Also family members who are abusing you. I cant say that I have spent much time trying to please a sponsor; but I did my time with a father and three older sisters. Im generous by nature and love to see the pleasure in someones face when I give in some small way. Just be careful who you choose to be kind to. Ive learned that the hard way and still working on it.

    I was lucky to find an open minded friend who has an abundance of common sense and not close minded. She got to know me as person first; before I ever opened up to her. I let her read things (lot of things); like chapter 5 and make up her own mind. She was my friend all along but i was always afraid to (bad mouth); shall I say AA. It was 8 months after I left before I started opening up to her. She has been grateful to know the truth. Anyhow, I just wanted to address a few things you said. Hope it makes sense and remember to give yourself time.

    • Also, I think the wrong person; can take any act of kindness and pleasure as something their entitled to. In there mind they see no need to give back. Their very selfish and egotistical. It’s not suppose to be in AA; but its all about them.

  10. Oh my goodness! Incredible article dude!
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    • i cant get onto the leaving aa storys page..i would really like to read the storys.

      its 4.30 in the morning.peptic ulsers flared up.seems to do that when i have been stressed out.like i have for a good few months.

      i got ulsers through pain medication and i suspect anxiety meds too.
      i had always used canabis for pain and stress.for me that was my medicine for real illness..arthritus, slipped discs,stiffening of lower spine,ripped muscles..acute anxiety chronic depression..

      AA said i must get clean…on doing so i would have to up my pain med and anxiety meds..dureing my time in aa/na i developed peptic ulsers..

      then i would be told useing medication incuding pain meds was not clean..
      then i would be clean and in lots of pain and panic and stress..

      then i would be told i wasnt sober/clean..that included when i was doing the steps as best i could..

      at 1 point at 1 yr clean and sober i was told i would have to go into a womans dry house untill i got the programme..this would have ment putting my youngest child in care and rehomeing my dog and looseing my council home.

      i picked up canabis again and left..a few months later i went back..to the shunning and judgeing..

      untill i finally left for good.

  12. im going to have time away from computer.I dont want to yap too much.i have posted a lot recently.and im thankfull for being allowed to.
    most here are probably fed up of hearing god and higher power talk.i know i am.however i wanted to leave something of that nature.
    and I hope it helps someone, and don’t disturb no one.
    i no longer do any of the aa programme, thankfully at long last, it has slowly gone.
    however back in early march my sister gave me a little book she found in a charity shop..
    it is a calander and on each day there is a little bit of writeing..and a picture..
    each day i turn the page and read the little message..
    todays says..

    “infinate wisdom has many courses to choose from,and you would not want to steer it towards one of less satisfaction through an insistance on one certain way.

    thankyou for posts replys and allowing me to post.

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