IS AA religious or is it spiritual? Is it white or is it SNOWFLAKE?

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I just did a show about this. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/saferecovery/2014/03/05/is-aa-religious-or-spiritual-is-it-white-or-snowflake In preparation for my film I had all the references to GOD, HP , higher power crapola pulled out. We found there were some almost 600 references to God in the first 164 pages.

I am making a film about AA and 12 step coercion and if you would like to donate to the film please consider the Tax deductable donation. Many have been forced to AA or NA  against your first amendment rights. Please click on the links below.

http://the13thstepfilm.wordpress.com/support-the-film/

Or you can donate to the IDA and use paypal as well…http://www.documentary.org/community/sponsorship/donate?film_id=4112

There are also a lot of MUSTS! For a take it or leave it program there are many many musts.

I am convinced AA is a suedo,  religious,  and very cult like for sure. If you leave they ostracize you. If you question its tenets, they ostracize you. If you try to make it safe…they tell you its an outside issue. But we can think for ourselves and use our minds and not be brainwashed.

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I think they are crazy! Please listen to the show and I will do a few more so we can laugh and not cry our way through this process. Some times its hard. 🙁

There are 7 free non religious options. Smart Recovery, SOS, Moderation.org , LIfeRING, Hams Harm Reduction, The Sinclair Method and Recover! The PERFECT PROGRAM> by Stanton Peele and Ilse Thompson.

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22 thoughts on “IS AA religious or is it spiritual? Is it white or is it SNOWFLAKE?

  1. I always felt it was religious but was so desperate I went along with it , even though there were many obvious conflicts with my normal beliefs. I started to question the program as a result and with the help of counselling and after reading some good books, such as the rational recovery book, I was able to to move on.
    Unless you submit to the God/Higher power side of AA and are seen to work the steps, you will not be fully accepted into the group.
    I was not aware it was a spiritual solution when I went and was told not to worry about that side of things for a while. I think having a place to go, where people were not drinking and I could hear about other people having some similar experiences helped me, but the religious side and the way the steps are presented held me back. Most AA members will put down improvements in their life as a result of finding God or a higher power, but I believe it is simply the decision to go somewhere and do something about their drinking, that helps. I do not think that long term membership of a 12 step group has many benefits, which is not what members will claim, unless you find that the religion on offer is something that appeals to you. I certainly do not view the steps as treatment for anything and am glad I did not spend money going to a 12 step rehab.
    I also read the book that Laura talks about and mentioned it on my site. AA-How Alcoholics Anonymous Steals Your Soul,Indoctrinating America in 12 Easy Steps.
    It is well worth a read if you want to see an alternative view of the steps. I think the religious side is really what puts people off AA. People either leave straight away when they see the scrolls at the front of the meeting, or they realise they are not getting better after repeating step 4 etc over and over again as God does not seem to do much for them. This can sometimes be quite a traumatic discovery for long term members. Thanks for continually highlighting the problem. It is important that the message that AA is religious and does not really help a lot of people is put across in a sensible way, in as many places as possible.

  2. It is religious, Bill Wilsons made up religion! To pass the buck he used a Higher Power concept as all cults and religions do. AA is man made at the end of the day not a gift from Bills drug induced God. To immerse oneself into the dogma of AA is very dangerous to say the least. I am slowly getting my old Self back but after years of trusting that program and it’s view on the world I still feel powerless and mind muddled at the best of times. More anger is coming up about me trusting that dogma and most of the losers i trusted in there. It took over my life for years and made me confused as hell. Remember it is the first sponser who does the most damage as I was correctly told. It almost led me to suicide and a nervous breakdown. AA led me away from normal society into their own dysfunctional sick society.

  3. Also it is traumatic when coming to realise that the program or HP doesn’t do anything for you as you were promised and hoped that they would. It is like going out in the world as a kid again. For me it is a harsh Truth but the truth all the same. I encountered too many sick & twisted people in those rooms to last me a lifetime.

    • bitter- HI —-:( I know the feeling. I cried a lot the first year I left because I released what a fool I was . How I was so indoctrinated. How much of my life and how much service I did. I was 19-21 and taking AA meetings into a mens prison every wed night WTF!!!

  4. I am actually grateful that AA gave me the idea that spirituality could exist without religion. I had a huge distaste for religion because of disagreements with the harshness of the religious beliefs of my parents.

    What bothers me is the bait and switch. One is told that AA is spiritual not religious, but then various prayers and proof-texted ideas are cobbled from Christianity to set you up to see this new spirituality in exactly the way Bill Wilson intended. If one can choose any higher power at all, then why are people in AA told EXACTLY how they should pray? I never went along with that, I literally couldn’t memorize the prayers in the Big Book that everyone brags about memorizing and regurgitating because they would come close to giving me panic attacks. I am grateful I didn’t force myself fully into the AA belief system, breaking free of ingrained 12-step dogma is hard enough as it is, I think when a person gradually makes it their whole belief system it’s even worse.

    AA is a religion, but one without theologians who are willing to delve into tough questions about life, you need to have thinkers willing to try to tackle some shit philosophically in order to have a religion/spiritual system that can stand up to stress. You either believe it’s simplistic set up or you are “too smart to get this simple program”. Please don’t ask why God would get an old-timer a parking place but let kids starve in India…….

    • Yeah, I was in a meeting once and shared that if “gawd is everything”, that means everything. Not just the characteristics you want to give it. That means gawd is your favorite fruit and the black plague. Hitler and Mother Teresa. At the very end of the meeting, some joker puked up, “Remember everybody, gawd is good and good is gawd!” . So, I asked mr sunshine about the recent tsunami that killed 250,000 people if that was an act of gawd and why did 250,000 people have to die? His answer, “free will” – they chose to live there. Uh huh. Really deep theological discussions make people drink so there are none of them in AA.

      • I was still in the rooms during the 9/11 attacks. I commented that the perpetrators were simply carrying out god’s will as they understood god. That didn’t go over too well. I was a thought criminal in their midst at that point anyway, still struggling with the painful realization that “fitting in” would never be possible for me.

        • ah, yes.. fitting in. Just like there is a profile for people where AA “works” initially – Vulnerable, desperate, gullible superstitious – there must also be a profile for those that stay and perpetuate the nonsense. The profile probably shifts to Arrogant, righteous, gullible and superstitious. If you become those and do the bidding of Bill Wilson, then you “fit in”. Otherwise, you are simply a “yet” in the making and don’t belong until alcohol has lashed you into submission to be a good AA. It really isn’t about not drinking, it is about being a good AAer.

          • I well remember the disappointment I felt as it slowly dawned on me that any differing perspective on anything would always be greeted with resistance or outright hostility. Slogans don’t just destroy critical thinking skills, they are great conversation killers as well.

        • “I was still in the rooms during the 9/11 attacks. I commented that the perpetrators were simply carrying out god’s will as they understood god. That didn’t go over too well.”

          OH NO U DIDNT…

          thats a comment hard to shake for even the sturdiest stepper…

      • I don’t think really deep theological discussion make people drink unless they are invested in a very shallow kind of spirituality and believe they have to think every word of the AA “spirituality” is true or they WILL GET DRUNK AND DIE. I think it is the need for that shallow thinking to be true that would hurt someone rather than any kind of philosophical thought. If deep discussion is viewed as a death sentence people will run from it like a rattle snake.

        I am someone who does not believe that knowing the world is a tough, often miserable place, and spirituality, are mutually exclusive.

        • Oh, just had a memory of this one guy about 20 years ago who went into this “zone” and about all he could say was “God is everything or he is nothing”. He had gone into some kind of psychotic trip and, of course, was not being aided by a Psychiatrist at that point because all you need is to get sober in AA, right? I think he did drink again, but managed to land in a mental hospital then off to another city for long term “treatment’ for alcoholism (sigh, probably not his #1 problem). I don’t know what happened to him after that. He was sober when he was repeating his mantra with glassy-eyes.

  5. The AA religion is is grandiose delusion run riot. The craziest people in there are the AA deacons & oldtimers. Remember the people in the Jim Jones Temple got clean & sober through that insane cult and followed that mad guru to their deaths. The self-doubt & fear I deal with from day to day from that crap still has power over me. When I think my way out of it it goes away, it does take a while to shake that program off.

  6. I have much to tell ..I will do it tomorrow. I am doing research…

    Now…spj- Im with you….There were so many times I could have left …escaped AA as a young woman. UGHHHHH!!!! I knew I didn’t fit in. I tried to tell them I was not an alcoholic like them and they also manipulated me with stupid sayings. Like… What were my “yets” “Identify ..don’t compare”. The stupid stuff said to me is outrageous. I am glad I saw the light and left 3 years ago. But I did waste many years and I do feel like I left a cult. A real cult.

    Good news ….AA is dying from within. It really is…:) There is no hiding the lies that have been perpetuated for 50 years. Marty Mann was a PR Queen and immersed in High Society. AA was not a grassroots movement. It was a serious strategy.

    Well, now we have ours. There is no going back. It is not a fellowship anymore. They don’t know what they are. There is a lot of infighting even inside AA at every level. They are not a program. They are not a real religion.

    So what are they. Hmmm. A made up group of knuckleheads layperson pods. Stuff written by nutjob Billy Bob Wilson who stole that stuff… from The Oxford movement and then he added a splash of new age BS and got entrenched in our

    Medicine, Our Legal system, Our courts, Our criminal justice system, our pilots, our nursing associations,our EAP programs, most rehabs, all the NIAAA, NIDA, SAMSA, on the whitehouse.gov. blah, blah, blah….They practically stopped scientific research for the past 40 years !!!!!Why has abstinence been so pushed in our culture when Prohibition ended in 1933? I ask you ….

    So..its entrenched everywhere….oh I almost forgot ..our media, Tv…film…Dr Drew…Intervention…But I refuse to get depressed about how bad this is. Because internally… its dying….

    I will finish my film , release it and do my best to help change this …. for more science based healthy healing options. I hope you will all help in any small or big way you can.

    • I wonder if your film will have the same effect that “Blackfish” has had on SeaWorld? I think they know it is possible. Beware of outlandish offers appearing from nowhere that slow down the film.

      • spj- I loved BLACKFISH. I can only hope The 13th Step has that effect!. Now for your last comment. …. Do you know something I should know? If you do please email me. But I take note of what you are saying and I am listening.

        “Beware of outlandish offers appearing from nowhere that slow down the film.”

        Will I be offered a singing gig in Vegas that pays lots of money LOL:))))))))))

    • Right on!!! It is dying. I was curious and called out local AA office or whatever it’s called and they had nobody answering the phone. Haha, I know it’s volunteers that do that. They couldn’t get anybody to help the poor suffering alcoholic….Oh my.

      I believe it will fall apart just don’t know when exactly. What do you guys think will be the last nail in the coffin?

      • suntime- Many lawsuits. At the same time may people like us will have fled or retreated to Home private tiny meetings, giving no money to NY AA. Many will leave and when we get the courts to not be able to force attend, and no Pilot, Dr, Lawyer, Nurse will be co erced either to a religious lay persons peer support group. Thats what they call it on the white house website. I do need to call them.

  7. The little fat fool who filled my head full of his crap is now a pathetic loser. I really can’t blame him directly as he was only parroting crap he heard off people in the meetings . They truly believe they are “chosen” by God.

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