12 thoughts on “Australia Class A Non ALcoholic Trustee GIves a Talk on AA and Non Professional Advice with Medications

  1. I think that the most powerful statement by Class A Trustee, Dr. Vanda Rounsefell, at the request of the National Office (the National Office is what they call the GSO in Australia, specifically National Office of Alcoholics Anonymous NOAA) is:

    “People without a therapy or doctor-patient relationship treatment contract with a person,
    are in physically and legally dangerous territory if they give medical advice or advice that
    may endanger someone else’s life or health.”

    The laws in Australia may be more stricter than those in the US and the UK. Notice they term it “legally dangerous territory.”

    Also note this is from a Doctor who claims that medication is between a Doctor and the patient, not AA…

    “AA is about alcohol. AAs may ask each other pointed questions about prescribed and other drugs, members may confess to having problems with prescribed drugs, but such problems are for Narcotics Anonymous or action outside of AA. Where medications are concerned, the AA’s doctor should be fully involved, and any change should be patient-doctor team-work. There are many strategies people can use to work towards getting off prescribed medical drugs. Time away from alcohol is a big one. So is the pursuit of psychological, spiritual and social health.Fully following the AA programme itself meets most of these needs for personal evelopment and for practising social skills. Refocusing from self-centredness to helping others, and getting into the AA service structure, including sponsorship, are powerful forces for psychological healing and self-mastery.”

    Note they don’t talk about patient AA teamwork…..

    • ” getting into the AA service structure, including sponsorship, are powerful forces for psychological healing and self-mastery”

      I do not agree with this, while doing small things like volunteering to make coffee when I was newly into AA did help me to come out of my shell and learn to chat with people, when you get very far into the service structure it is a cult unto its own. You are expected to keep trying to climb further into “service”; it is expected that you will devote massive amounts of time to it in expense of your real everyday life. In doing this I did not acquire social skills or psychological healing. I have just begun to acquire those through being involved in more real world interests and activities around people who are not in AA. There was a time and place where volunteering for small, social duties was a great asset, but it can and does become a hindrance past that.

  2. Ok. I could say a lot about this. Lets start with GYA, guard your arse. All lawyers and most doctors know this. So their default position is always very conservative. Mine is not.
    Recently in Australia some doctors have complained in the media about the funding of totally unproven new age therapies in the public health system.
    JR you are right to notice ‘legally dangerous territory’. It is.
    I don’t think that there is that big a difference in the laws, more so in the processes.
    But the last paragraph you have provided up there just goes off.
    “AA is about alcohol.
    No it is not. It is about a really weird religion.
    the AA’s doctor should be fully involved,
    Fuck off! We are not AA’s, we are people.
    .Fully following the AA programme itself meets most of these needs for personal evelopment and for practising social skills.
    Where in the fuckin hell has that sanctimonious tripe ever been proven?

    I think I need to make a movie.

    • The devil is in the details, as they say; calling people “AAs” rather than even “members” has a severe labeling and even dehumanizing effect.

      • Well said. The devil certainly is in the details. It is always so sneaky and nasty. To make us less than. To make us fit Wilsons description of the alcoholic, with no choice but to attend his meetings forever and ever Amen.

    • Steve- make a movie. PLease do …we need more then mine and blamedenials. I saw another article where a Dr is making the students go to AA meetings a write reports. JR posted it on OP.

      EVery time I see how deep this religious cult is imbedded in every part of out culture…I think….OMG ….it’s too big. But then I remember we have to take it piece at a time.

      • @Massive
        Right now, today, at this moment, I am getting really concerned about my own recovery. I am going to take care of me but if that process includes launching against the recovery industry in some creative way. then I am going to do it.
        Today I am not ready.
        I do not want to be an alcoholic today. I don’t want my life story to be the one that it is today. I don’t want my history in my head.
        This is exactly the thinking that precedes me picking up,everytime.
        I promise everyone and myself that I will not pick that drink up.
        If that means I have to rant on here 24/7 then so be it.Sorry. But I am having a bad day.

        • steve-Im sorry …you seem really upset. Can you go to an online Smart of Hams Network meeting. do you skype? Sometimes there is so much of this stuff in my head…I dunno…I wish ST was still up and active. Its up but not active. mafeaasafer@gmail.com

  3. Thank you Steve…

    I hope you keep blogging and sharing Steve. There is a refreshing honesty and generosity of spirit to your words. It helps you and helps others to read what you share. I think many more people are on here than who actually feel comfortable posting yet. Your words and experience is helping them and me.

    I hate them. I think. I usually refrain from “hating” but at this moment reading that shyt that JR just shared with us… I feel like I actually hate them…or IT…the Beast that is AA. The words have such a demonic-deceitful twist to them. It’s slithering and sneaky syllables whispered and hissing in the mist like a snake…


    You are Unique and your Voice and your sharing greatly enhances this blog.

    If you do ultimately choose to make a movie—DAMN! That thing is going to be off the dang chain!

    I look forward to it.


    • I hate hating too. But Sometimes I hate AA. I try to balance my life and move forward, but activism needs anger to move actions forward.

  4. I also hate hating as well but I also know that it is harmful to me to suppress how I am really feeling. I have an expression I use to describe some people.
    ‘almost a mormon’
    You know how shiny and sparkly and clean they look cycling around town in their impossibly white shirts with an unshakeable belief in their own righteousness.
    I am not ‘ almost a mormon’. It is ok to hate evil’ to hate a situation or circumstances so much that it motivates us to change them, it is a good thing. Not allowing ourselves to hate sounds very close to not allowing ourselves to be angry. We all know where that leads.
    So don’t worry if you are not almost a mormon. We would all still be swinging in the trees if to this day if one us hadn’t said
    “this tree fuckin sucks. I’m gonna climb down and walk on two legs till I find a better one”.

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