96 thoughts on “Comedian Doug Stanhope Rants That Alcoholics Anonymous is a Poorly Constructed Cult!!!and Making Up a GOD of your Own is also a joke…

  1. Alcoholics Anonymous is quickly becoming the joke of the 21st century. The annual 2013 picnic at the Stepping Stones compound of Bill Wilson in Katonah,New York has seen a decrease of 40% participation from 2011 and 2012. The Wilson House in East Dorset Vermont where both Bill and Lois Wilson are buried arrested a guest on Christmas 2012, Dr. Bob’s home in Akron, Ohio had the manager arrested in 2012 for embezzlement. Even the famous phone booth at the Mayflower hotel in Akron, Ohio where Bill Wilson got in touch with Dr. Bob is in danger of being removed due to gentrification. The internet is a buzz with the “it’s Spiritual, not Religious” lie that has allowed AA to be mandated by court, probation and licensing bureaus. The joke of Alcoholics Anonymous is becoming well known and the Internet is spreading the word at the speed of light.

    • ALL RIGHT EVERYONE, I’LL TELL YOU THE SECRET TO LEAVING AA: Just open the door and walk out, and if you don’t want to–don’t come back.

      It’s that simple. May you have success in all future plans and endeavors.

      • yea we got that. Thanks. Bye for now.
        Some of us planned our exit so not to go through withdrawal ..hahahah. Obviously you don’t need any help or advice. So why would you give advice to people hurt by AA on how to leave when you love it. You are acting in a condescending arrogant way… this is exactly the personality of AA people as a whole. You think you know better then what we are saying.

        You do not know a thing about any of us including Stanhope the comedian who had to sit in friggen AA meetings as a little boy.

        enough said.

        • No, not enough said. You’re not above rebuke and just because someone disagrees with you that doesn’t mean that they are abusing you. If Doug Stanhope’s mother used AA as a religion, she used it the wrong way–and that’s according to the book, its not a religion and does not work well as one. I makes me mad when I see that happen, all these people come in, don’t follow the book, try to make AA a religion and end up being crazy and making those around them crazy. But what can you do, those people are crazy drunks that won’t listen to the book or anyone else and they don’t do better drinking. But my drunk Mom that beat us up daily is still crazy and I would trade her crazy any day for a crazy AA that make religion out of the program, still they are more sane than they were drunk. Stanhope’s ungratful, I’m sure his prospective would be different if his Mom stayed drunk and abused him, or bounced him from one foster home to the next.
          This is a serious disorder and it is insulting and discriminatory that you are on here acting like its just nothing, just like it would be if I got started an anorexic site and said all they need to do is eat more.
          What do you know about it? Are you an alcoholic? If you’re not, why would you go to AA? If you are an alcholic then this is like the anorexia sites where sick people trade tips on how to starve themselves and many of those crazy people unfortunatly die.

          If, however, you’re just someone with an axe to grind against religion and God, then what your doing is sickening and utterly shameful. How dare you do that. You have no more of right to criticize people that turn to God for help because they have a drinking disorder that’s killing them then you would have a right to criticize an anorexic or a cancer patient for doing the same.

          For those of us that really have this it’s a serious thing, and you have no right to critize us for seeking a remedy just because you’re some brat that’s pissed off about religion, which AA is not a religion.

          And I don’t love AA. I’m glad it was there to help me, but if I hadn’t needed it I certainly would have had better things to do with my time. I not some loser that’s so pissed off at religion that I would go to a self help group for people with a mental disorder just so I could make fun of them and be like “ha ha, there is no God–you’re doomed!” If that’s you then you really are a sicko.

          • You are talking about the same program that Bill Wilson admitted to talking to dead monks (Boniface) and sea captains using a Ouija Board (aka Devils tool) to write the 12&12 that was so open about cheating on his wife Lois that the fellowship had to make a “Founders Watch Committee” to keep away from female newcomers?

            I know it works, if you work it, ask anyone who used it as a “get out of jail free card” or a “stay out of jail card” because they were mandated by a court of law because of the “Corrections Committee” and “Public Information” (PI) committee who actively recruit from jails, prisons, probation and parole departments claiming that they don’t “advertise” looking for prospects.

            Why not just be honest and admit it? Or are you constitutionally incapable?

  2. AA spirituality is really a House of Sand. It is one big mind-fuck that sadly duped a lot of people for years. The money that it has made since it’s foundation is astonshing. Charlie Sheen did a great service when he had the guts to call AA for what it is. Gas-lighting was it’s most effective weapon.

    • Spirituality is something I enjoy exploring, I like learning about various concepts and outlooks. That being said, AA spirituality is anything but deciding what spiritual concepts ring true for your inner self, you really do not have the complete freedom to practice any form of spirituality in practice. So much emphasis is placed on “AA spirituality” that a person can be discouraged from looking into any sort of practice outside the AA accepted realm. I had to look beyond it because I have a personal need for spiritual concepts and discussion and “God gave me a parking place” or “God is testing me” just wasn’t cutting it at all.

      So much of what AA enforces is done through inflection rather than outright dictation (though that does occur). It is passive-aggressive persuasion that allows a pretense of plausible deniability. For instance I have heard often in meetings “I HAVE TO get ON MY KNEES and pray or I will drink” of course if questioned about how that fits with choosing one’s own spiritual practice the person will say “I am only saying what I HAVE TO DO to STAY SOBER”, the implication being that you had better damned well do it my way, the AA approved way, too. The same applies to the question of medication, where people will say they can’t connect with God if on anti-depressants and such.

      Spirituality I love, AA spirituality I find confusing at best but mostly immature and frightening.

      • Well Charlie Sheen’s real good at staying sober isn’t he? Gina DiFalco, did an article on 6/6/2012, he freely admits he never stopped drinking and that he was in total denial and like vodka straight up.

        If you wanted to get sober I’m sure even Sheen would tell you that following his lead isn’t going to help. He’s a real good sport about it.

        • Charlie is doing just fine. He is doing moderation. I saw him and talked to him at a party a few months back.
          I told him that there were thousands of us who supported him and we loved what he said about AA. You know, calling it a cult!

          We had a good laugh.
          Charlie, I said, we were so happy you did what you did. Ben Afleck and Kelsey Grammer also are into moderation. They didn’t drink the kool aid either. Same with actress Claudia Christian, from TV show Babylon 5. She is going to speak on this topic soon. Claudia has a fantastic book called ” BABYLON CONFIDENTIAL” The Sinclair Method is widely used in Europe.

          AA was developed in 1935 , never re written and no research was ever done. Bill made this shit up after he stole most of it from the Crazy ass Oxford movement!!

          Its not a disease and if it were one would not get on their knees to ask God to remove Cancer or heart disease. One would go to a Dr. All the magical thinking, self blaming, and steppism, doing free service up the gazoo….

          • People with cancer ask pray for it to be removed all the time. What do you know about having cancer.

            And you’re right about it not being a disease. It’s an obsessive drinking disorder that kills people, just like anorexia is an obsessive eating disorder that kills people.

            If you have such an axe to grind with God and religion then go grind it with a religion. AA is not one. A church would be fully equipped to deal with you. They don’t have a mental disorder. They are equipped to go round and round with you fighting over the barel of monkeys that is most organized religions. What are you afraid you’re too dumb to take them on, you have to come pick on the mentally ill and spread slanderous lies about one of the only organizations that tries to help them.

          • John,
            I hear you, AA really works for many people, it is however not without objectionable and unsustainable characteristics. The program is said to not be a religion, cult, mental health venue, or psychotherapy; yet it has many of these characteristics. For me, AA worked for several years and then became unsustainable due to many untruths and unhealthy beliefs perpetrated by the groups. During this time I had five very close friends and several acquaintances die due to AA supported untrue belief systems. I was able to disengage from AA by participating in blogs like this one. If you find these discussions objectionable I suggest you discontinue your participation. AA does not stand up to logic, reason, or science. If AA is your lifeline stay away from sites like this one and continue what is working for you. If however you feel AA is questionable in the maintenance of your .long term recovery be advised; there are many ways other than AA to achieve abstinence and well being.
            In three years of anti AA blogging I have not seen a single pro AA prevail based on science, logic, medicine, or an accepted mainstream psychological basis.

  3. bitter- you are so right. Charlie rocks! I got to meet him a few months ago at a party and had the chance to tell him about all us bloggers who support what he did. He smiled and laughed and gave me a big hug. It was so satisfying.

    I heard they have millions put aside for lawsuits.

  4. AA is slowly but surely being exposed like Scientology was by people having the guts to speak out. AA is an industry at the end of the day.

  5. yup. a few Documentaries , a few good indie films, then a good hard hitting TV series will do wonders! Oh yea and a talk show with a few ex steppers and Dr Kern!

  6. It also seems to be crumbling from within with Dr Drew & the criminal & sadly fatal behavior of a lot of it’s members. Murder,sexual assault, fiscal crimes etc.

  7. AA has always been a “ship of fools” . Sometimes well intentioned fools, but fools none the less. Anyone that really believes that praying to any entity of your making will make it reach into your brain and remove your character defects and desire to drink is simply bat shit crazy. What we are witnessing is the extended death throes of an organization that has no place in modern, aware society. It thrived because it could stay a secret and people were afraid to speak out and the mass media was on their side. Now the “media” is everyone with a computer and it can’t be controlled and the world is finding out how foolish and damaging the whole thing really is. It can’t withstand a prolonged onslaught of reason that uses AA’s own bizarre 1930’s religious dogma and the overall results as the ammo. A massive contraction has already begun. The big and only real question about AA’s fate at this point is, how far will it contract ? The “movement”, as stated on their tax returns, is dying.

    • I’m gonna wash that gray right outta my hair… I’m gonna pray that gay right outta my mind .. I’m gonna pray that drink right outta my hand … I’m gonna pray that dope right outta my arm . all together now .. I’m gonna pray that …

      • How is being an alcoholic like being gay? I’m sure you think that people are born gay so they should be gay. Do you think people are born alcoholics so they should embrace that and just drink themselves to death?

        I used to think that way before I got sober, it seved me well for years. I thought, I’m just like a diabetic, they need their insulin, and I need my booze. The thing that changed my mind was when alcohol started killing me. Then I wanted to stop drinking, but still couldn’t. That’s when the terror set in–being a drunk was going to kill me! Well that theory went out the window then. I went from treatment center to treatment center spending at least $20,000 a pop and I still couldn’t stay sober. Finally I went to AA. I had been sent there by the courts years before and hated AA and all the people there. I thought they were stupid scumbags. But they could do something couldn’t by that point, and that was not drink all day every day and somehow be reasonably happy and functional. I thought I could go there for awhile and steal that secret. When I asked how they did it they said we did these steps and if you want what we have and are willing to do what we did you can reasonably happy and functional and not have to drink unless you want to. AA taught me how to stay sober, but by that time that was what I wanted.

        AA however is a serious program, for the serious disorder of alcoholism. It’s not for people that aren’t alcholics any more than chemotherapy is for people without cancer. And only you can decide if that’s you, other people deciding it for you doesn’t work, and you have to do it because you want to do it and be sober or it doesn’t work.
        The AA book is outdated in calling alcoholism a disease. That was one of the problems I had with then program at first.

        Alcoholism is a compulsive disorder, like anorexia–not a disease. However no one at AA has ever had a problem with me see things this way.

        If you are at AA and you don’t want to get sober becuase you think you aren’t an alcholic it won’t work. Some of the people so against AA are sent by the courts. But look on the bright side, these people used to be sent to either jail, prison or an asylum. One hour a day of AA is better than that.
        But forcing AA on other people is a judges decision and is against AA policy and philosophy. AA doesn’t get money or a kickback from courts like a rehab place would.That’s why it has become so popular with judges to send people there, it’s free and doesn’t cost them or anyone else any money.
        AA gave me a solution for my compulsive disorder of alcoholism that was killing me. I knew I was going to drink myself to death and wanted a way out. And just like if I was a anorexic, I would want a way to stop starving myself to death, I’m glad AA was there to teach me how to stop drinking.

        Now that being said, if you’re not an alcholic–AA is the wrong place for you, and if you can just manage well and moderately drink then you aren’t an alcoholic. You may have been a problem drinker at one time but now you can moderate. The alcoholic is the person like me that can’t and is going to die because of it.

        If you go to AA and your not an alcoholic, it wil be like taking chemo if you don’t have cancer. But you have to be honest with yourself. No one likes chemo, but for people with cancer, it helps them and saves their life. For someone without cancer it’s just torture for nothing. Only you can decide which person you are, but if you lie to yourself you’re the one that will suffer for it.

  8. Damn that is right Damn, I just do not like, the AA groups where I go to. they are the stocking ess people I have ever seen, I strongly suggest if you attend AA meetings that do not give out any information about yourself, or any truth about your self and do not give them any money,
    carry a vedio camera with you and a audio and take record what they all say.

  9. Brilliant. That was great. Makes me wonder who lurks on these anti AA sites and how big the movement is getting. Loved that bit about making scientology look credible.

  10. I belong to AA. and have been sober for over 8 years. While it may not be for you or anyone else it has helped to keep me sober. I do not involve myself in the politics. Don’t indulge in the gossip. I use it as a support group. As for the predators they are there for sure. They are in every segment of society. I had a lady with long term sobriety try to pick me up. Thank heavens I knew better. As for the higher power of your choosing. I again have no problem with that. It would not work for me if I had to believe in a higher power of someone elses choosing. Please keep an open mind.

    • So, Howard, how do you feel about being lied to in every meeting, in an “honest” program? If you know they are lies and know that you keep company with liars and cons that pray to bizarre gawds, is that really ok with you? I ask those questions in all seriousness. It is well known that who you hang with influences how you think and behave. Are you a liar and a con with bizarre religious practices too? Or, are you a parasite on the program and not really in it, but around it? Once you start to ask questions of yourself with extreme seriousness, the answers are obvious.

      You can’t question the nonsense of AA and remain anywhere near AA because the cognitive dissonance created by the truth will drive you out. I have an open mind, that is why I am no longer involved in AA. If you really look for the truth, and find it, you will leave too. Deep inside, you really yearn to be free and you have not found this site and engaged us in error. You want to know the truth, now do the research. It will sting at first and be hard to believe, but the clarity from knowledge will follow.

      The moment you realize precisely where you have been for 8 years and the nonsensical nature of what you have been manipulated and coerced into believing, and the tactics they use, then your mind will truly start to open. It is a journey you should undertake in earnest.

    • Howard, if AA works for you and you like it then stick around. It’s strange how people who claim to be happy (joyous and free?) ‘stumble’ across this site, I would be intrigued to see their search parameters.

      Regarding keeping an open mind, I did. I took the steps several times, did a few step 4s, made a fair few amends and started all the working with others. Problem is, I left my mind too open – I was delicate, vulnerable, open to manipulation, coercion and bullying (some of it subtle, some of it not so). Once I closed my mind to the bs that XA planted into it I got happy, then sad, then angry, really, really angry. Now I hate anon, ten years of my life was consumed with it – anon stole aspects of my personality, it dominated my thought process, it warped the way I saw the world. Maybe you should keep an open mind and realise that whilst you may well be happy in AA that many others are not and besides that get damaged in there. People here have left for various reason some have experienced serious trauma and been abused, attacked, stolen from, given advice that it was not some crazy ex alkie sponsor’s position to give etc etc, the list is long.

      Others it was just that, the open mind turned into a mind f**k (‘scuse my French). AA screwed with my head above all I am glad to be back in a world where common sense and rational thinking avail. I was vulnerable, I got brainwashed (more fool me), I am happy to have my own mind back.

      • Wow, I did a quick search on “leaving AA’ and ” leave AA” and there are quite a few helpful links in addition to this site. How wonderful. The Bill Wilson book club and cult of the immaculate doorknob is truly having its covers pulled. About damn time !

        • Hi spj, I’m sure such a search would lead to a whole lot of info out there to help someone that is questioning what they are involved in and might be looking to find out more to enable them to make an informed decision as to how they want to manage their drinking. BUT – as I pointed out in my post to Howard, why would someone who is happily esconsed in AA follow a search that led them to a site such as this?
          I know that when I was happily programmed to the gills that reading anything like this – and a lot of the content on this site is mild compared to some of the more spiteful places – really messed about with my programme. Anything rocking my programme meant a shed loads of inventory so I just left well alone!
          I wonder how happy Howard actually is in AA or if he is coming over here to be a good stepper and work his 12th and try and drag some of us back.
          Alas 12 steppers, I chose the red pill, there is no going back when the cat is out of the bag!

        • ALL RIGHT EVERYONE, I’LL TELL YOU THE SECRET TO LEAVING AA: Just open the door and walk out, and if you don’t want to–don’t come back.

          It’s that simple. May you have success in all future plans and endeavors.

          • One of my future plans and endeavors is seeing the entire faith-healing, deceitful, manipulative and nonsensical “program” of Bill Wilson written into history as the largest fraud ever perpetrated on humanity. Wanna help?

          • “I’LL TELL YOU THE SECRET TO LEAVING AA: Just open the door and walk out, and if you don’t want to–don’t come back. It’s that simple.”

            Unfortunately, that isn’t true for people that have been sentenced to AA by the courts or have their attendance mandated by so-called treatment programs. So it really isn’t that simple. AA goes to great lengths to influence the courts and medical communities to infringe on Constitutionally-granted civil liberties, overlook AA’s demonstrated general lack of effectiveness, and ignore potential safety issues associated with coercing people into AA. To call AA a voluntary program of attraction is just a flat-out lie. In fact, AA is often a program that invites coercion and perpetuates civil rights violations.

        • Oh horse crap. AA doesn’t go tony lengths to get people sent from court to AA. Judges do that on their own accord because it’s free. If that’s happened it would be agaisnt the law and against the rules of AA. So show me the proof of what you are saying, where is there any record that AA is working to influence courts or medical communities to send more alcholics to AA.

          Most rehabs use AA cause they don’t really have a program of their own. They just take your $20,000 teach you a little about the medical facts of alcoholism and send you to AA because they don’t know what to do with you but that. I sure learned that the hard way from rehab centers. If they have the cure then where is it? You all are basically saying we don’t know the solution, but don’t go to AA, cause we’re pissed off at religion and God, and we’re not smart enough to deal with the facts that AA is not a religion and claims that it’s not a religion. By the way that would be another differce from Scientology–which claims to be a religion.

        • NA AA is a brainwashing cult, what controls the minds of the people what go there, they make people feel comfortable, there is people what will be friends with you. if the cult likes you. one of the members will marry the new comer. more like step 13,
          the cult wants all new comers to start from the first, like carrying out the trash and cleaning the AA NA room, get a mind controlling sponsor what is like and voted in my the members, not everyone can be a sponsor if you want to be in the cult, you have to know the right people. what control the cult,
          if you disobey the sponsors verbal abuse, like the 12 steps, you will be shunned by the group and looked at like a non alcoholic, In my experience, I would say that this is true with all the AA NA groups,
          I think they are all alike, and far as I am concern AA NA can kiss my ass,

          • john- you are naive…If AA World Service Sells $6,000,000 million dollars a year from book sales to non AA members which it does, it would behoove them to keep that gravy train going. The other $6,000,000 comes from AA members in the US and Canada.

            When was the last time you saw a new member pull out a six dollar bill from their purse and buy a BB. NEVER did I in my last 20 years. The groups are brainwashed and buy books to give away cause NO ONE WOULD BUY THAT PIECE of SH**T> …You and I both know that.

            So if Betty Ford and Promises and your choice de jour of rehab charges Blue Cross or Blue Shield $1,000 a day to rehab you sick fuckers who need to be fixed for life cause you got a spiritual malady that only other sick fuckers from AA who are control freaks can help. See only other alkies in AA know whats best for the alcoholic of our type. Wrong again!

            Now right about now if you could here me… I would be speaking in a southern accent. NOt because southerners are stupid , but because AA says

            ” you can be too smart for AA but not too stupid” Really now….

            …. while the banjo is playing I will finish my post to you john…

            AA Judges might own a piece of a drug class business. Conflict of interest that is. This will also eventually be exposed. AA has some board members that are judges and parole officers and social workers etc.hmmm why would they have those types. Why not have teachers and simple stupid folk to be on their National board?

            We have people in government who are in AA…they are a few senators who lobbyed to get insurance to pay for rehab. Why would an AA senator want insurance to pay for rehab. WHat if that senator decided when he retired he was going to own a piece of that nice little rehab that Bill W visited all the time in Connecticut. or NY state or in Ohio. ANd after he left the Senate he could make a million dollars a year on that investment.

            Rehab and all that surrounding DUI’s, Drug Courts , rehab and such where they pay low level stepper employees shitty pay , cause they are uneducated with no degree past high School ..oh did I say high school…I meant a GED, oh yea and in California they DONT DO A BACK GROUND CHECK FOR THAT EITHER!!!WTF…

            SO you can be a sex offender and work as a counselor in a rehab in California and Pennsylvania. Guess who made those f**king laws. AA members who were in those positions to see that shit passed. Thats who made those laws.

            Need I say more. John…you are here for a reason. I think GOd sent you here so you could be free from the mind trap of the AA wacko hogwash lies and something in you wants to be free from all the brainwashing.

            If I’m wrong, which I might be, see Im not an asshole AA member anymore so I know Im not always right. I have learned to disagree and discuss important issues with people I like. ANd still continue to talk to them.

            I am free from the lies I once believed for 36 years. They got me young john. Really young. They took my early 20’s that I can never get back. They 13 stepped me when I thought they were a spiritual society. They took me into Oahu Prison for AA fucking meetings when I should have been going to college.

            I rest my case.

    • Howard, This is not a pro AA site. Don’t preach to us. We know better.

      FYI you cant make up who GOd is. Thats insane. A door knob is not God.

      “Please keep an open mind” Really Howard…AA people are the most closed minded judgmental assH**les I have ever met. .OKAY …maybe there are 20 or so nice ones. I know a few. But just a few. ALL the ass**les are at the Westside District General Service AA meetings at 9 am on Sunday mornings.

  11. Howard,

    Obviously AA suits you; “whatever floats your boat”. However, I think the people who have a problem being open minded; including a “one size fits all attitude” are in the fellowship your involved in. As far as anything else you said, I wouldnt take the time to debate you; because that would require you to educate yourself more. I respect the fact AA is a good fit for you but many others here are in the process of working through the physical and mental harm caused as result of their past involvement with AA. Im sure you can respect that.

  12. Wow, what an interesting site. I searched AA documentary and saw anti-AA a few choices down. I didn’t realize some people hated AA so much. I love Doug Stanhope but comparing it to Scientology is a bit of a stretch. I’m pretty sure you can go to as many meeting you want on any day in any country and not pay a thing. Or, if you’re feeling generous you can throw a buck in the basket. And I’m pretty sure walking away from AA is a bit easier than trying to leave Scientology. AA seems more like any church you might attend..if the Pastor told a new story about his drunken past every week. Using Scientology is much funnier, though. Doug knows funny!

    • Mike- HI . Its a long story. You can read why we created this site on the main page ..click on WELCOME to Leaving Alcoholics Anonymous.

      I disagree with you, you maybe be a teen whose parent drops you off in AA and you get 13 stepped or worse raped. Or maybe you are like Karla Brada and get murdered by a man you meet in a meeting thinking he is Edie Falco’s brother so he must be a nice guy . just a drunk. WRONG! ( just a made up scenario)

      This is a site for ex steppers, those who have been harmed and those who need help leaving.

      • Go back and re-read my post. Where was the preaching? I disagreed with the comparison to Scientology and said Doug Stanhope was funny. I enjoy reading looking at different views. You sound pretty angry. Sorry you wasted 35 years of your life.

        • Mike,

          I my opinion your original comment did not come across as a person who was simply interested in different views. To me it sounded like someone who knew exactly what AA was about and questioned what was said here. It’s only natural that people who have more knowledge about AA, would challenge you. Thanks for making it clear that you really are not that familiar. I want to explain to you why I felt your comment was humorous regarding member contributions but i have to go to work. I will try to respond later.

      • This site is a bunch of crap. AA is like any other organization, except everyone that joins joins because they are an acholic and have those problems–some are really crazy and AA tells you to stay away from them. People date in AA, what you call 13th stepping, like any other organization, just know that whoever you date is an alcholic so they have that “crazy when it comes to drinking” problem already and also they may have more and be even crazier.

        It would be like if you went to church and had someone come in who had been drunk for years to turn their life around. If your little sister went home with the guy that night it might lead to trouble. That’s why church would tell you not to do that and AA does the same.

        Also I’m not getting anything out of this. I’m not telling anyone where to go. All I’m saying is if you need help, I hope you get it, if AA can help you the help is available free of charge. That’s the AA way, whatever works for you–great.

        The only reason I have replied to any of this stuff is that people deserve to know that lies that this liar is spreading about AA are not the way that it really is. Most of the people at AA aren’t saints, that being said its the only organization that I know of that reads a preamble stating that they aren’t saints before every meeting. Name any other organization that will admit when they meet you (or at any other time) that they are flawed people that need to work on themselves.

        • “Most of the people at AA aren’t saints, that being said its the only organization that I know of that reads a preamble stating that they aren’t saints before every meeting. Name any other organization that will admit when they meet you (or at any other time) that they are flawed people that need to work on themselves.”

          Stepper…please…most organized religions state that the members arent saints at their get togethers…familiar with the christian term “sinner”? As in how we all are born as such ?…

          • The Bible say that Christians are saints of the most high God, so if you go to a church and they all tell, well we’re all just a bunch of sinners, then they aren’t following the Bible. The Bible teaches that they were sinners before turning their lives over to Christ, now they are saints of the most high God.

        • Most people who stumble onto AA know its crap. This site is for people like me who were brainwashed in AA and needed to deprogram from the deadly belief system of jails, institutions, and death. I needed help getting away from the criminals in AA who were sexually and monetarily exploiting each other. I needed to be freed from the bondage of sponsorship and given a chance to live.

    • Mike said;

      “Or, if you’re feeling generous you can throw a buck in the basket.”
      I found that statement comical.
      You dont honestly believe that do you? No more pressure than that huh?

    • Mike- Being anti-AA does not equate to hate. Please do not confuse the two. Both AA and Scientology use brainwashing techniques to keep people in the cult FOREVER. There is no exit strategy. They want you to become a lifer for the benefit of the Org- not the member.

      Scientology excels in physically keeping members within the org. Many have to literally escape their compound. This does not dilute the harm AA causes people around the world. AA is ingrained into society in a very harmful way. Scientology is not. But because of the media both cults are experiencing declines in growth.

      We have lots of stories about the dangers of both AA and NA at http://www.nadaytona.org

      • You are so full of it it’s not even funny. The difference between AA and Scientology is so stark that it is like comparing a self help meeting to a war machine. AA is not a religion, and certainly doesn’t declare fair game war on anyone. You’re crazy. I mean, how was AA trying to get your money when they said you can put a dollar in the basket if you want. Compare that to Scientology, or even most religions or treatment centers. I have been involved in AA for the past 17 years. You know how much money I gave them last year? $0–no one said anything about it either, they are better about it than the boy scout troop my kid goes to.
        And yes there are dangers to AA meetings, in that being full of crazy drunks, there are crazy people there that you shouldn’t trust–AA will tell you that. They don’t even ask you to trust Bill Wilson’s writings, the Big Book say that it is a book of suggestions, the plan was taken from the Oxford group, and that AA only knows a little and what you can use, take what you want and leave the rest. How is that some big mind control trip?

        But from the way that you lie your head off, I can understand why you don’t like AA, because they believe that you cant get sober lying you head off, and they call a spade a spade. Apparently you’re enraged that you ran into an organization that didn’t fall for a liar like you.

        Well there are plenty of other organizations in the world that will buy it. AA didn’t tie you down. You can lie to them as much as you want, woo will they ever let you spin the BS web. The only thing about that is it still won’t be the truth and you still won’t be able to look at yourself in the mirror and see someone you respect–which is why you drink.

        • John- fyi Alcoholics Anonymous has been deemed “highly religious in 25 states already. I know. Shocking. I had no idea until I left AA and Heard Tom Horvath on Huff Live discuss the other alternatives to AA that are really growing.

          AA is an antiquated brainwashing layman’s support group that has morphed into something highly unsafe.

          The public and AA members need to know who the courts are dumping there.

          Besides that the sexual predation, harassment are at such high levels and the predators are now protected because the traditions have become distorted. YES THEY HAVE!!!

          The other aspect is the harm done by just being around so many BAD criminals , listening to the extreme Bullshit from Chapter 5 which keeps ones self esteem so low many commit suicide with teen years of sobriety. we are not like Men who have lost heir legs. who never grow new ones. What the F**k is that suppose to mean. Never mind he wrote that and never researched of it.

          You were born that way? are you f**King kidding me? The list goes on and once I saw and heard the rhetoric and the demeaning way grown men were being talked to sponsors is a crime, never mind the rapes and boobs being grabbed meetings ( this was reported) asses being grabbed and no one including the Men do shit about it. Woman boobs being grabbed while saying the lords prayer and the group laughs about. Go someone where else before I kick your butt off our site!

          • Well I will agree with you that Bill Wilson was just some sobered up drunk that was doing the best he could. He admits that in the book though and says its only meant as suggestion, take what you want and leave the rest. The program is the 12 steps from the Oxford group, Wilson didn’t make that up and never claimed to. A significant portion of the big book is Wilson saying why he thinks the 12 steps work, and much of that I don’t agree with, but I didn’t have to to get sober, all I had to do was work the steps. I guess if I had gone in and not followed the book and made a religion out of AA like some crazy people there do then I could have gone off to crazy land like them.

            I bet you like holding the gun and threating to ban me, can’t do that at an AA meeting can you. Imagine if someone stood up and said all opinions are banished but my own! The power of the Internet!

          • My opinions were violently discouraged in AA; especially the ones that challenged core program beliefs and newcomerf@king.

        • johnny, johnny, johnny … methinks thou does protest too much .. you have entered a zone where many people had been there longer than you and have done significant amounts of research about AA, outside of the intellectually inbred cult. Your angered response demonstrates the program has not worked for you as advertised. You are obviously not happy, joyous and free. You appear bitter and slanderous and very quick to judge others. Is this the AA way? I guess your particular miracle hasn’t happened quite yet.

          It is fascinating that you bring up the concept of lying and throw it at us as if a weapon. You do realize the big book and the program were built on lies don’t you? I mean, you’re probably a smart guy and been in the cult for a long time. Haven’t you done ANY outside research? Don’t you know by now that the beginning of Chapter 5 is a complete and utter lie? And one that you probably perpetuate? Interesting that a person involved in a deceitful, manipulative, anonymous and secretive organization would call others who are openly trying to expose the organization, “liars”.

          You b 1 sick puppy.

          • Well chapter 5 isn’t an utter lie. It says: Many of us exclaimed, “What an order! I can’t go through with it.” You’re on here doing that now, so there’s at least some truth in it.

            And I did all kind of outside research and to this day I will tell you AA is far from perfect–the 12 steps are the part I don’t have any qualms with. There are plenty of A holes in AA. Just like in other organizations but sometimes in greater concentration because other organizations don’t start with drunks. AA is definatly a place that you want to beware. People come there because they have mental disorder.

          • john, john, john…Rarely have we see a person who has thoroughly followed our path. That is the truth.

            Not how it is written is

            Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed out path.

            Most people 99% do not do the steps 1-12
            do not get a sponsor
            do any service

            Most drink again and come back to be judged.

            We did a radio show called Tearing up the big book on http://www.blogtalkradio.com/saferecovery

            also a great blogger named Gunthar rewrote CHapter 5 as a parody. Its great.
            you can find it on http://www.expaa.org

            Im not going to ban you. You seem … interested. If you become a troll….then we”ll deal with it then.

        • Ive noticed a pattern in the last few years, whenever these steppers invade anti-aa sites in huff; they always accuse someone of drinking or being drunk somewhere in their rant. It’s happened to me on many occasions (o:

          If you disagree with cult, you must be drinking or thinking about it. Its like name calling John; very immature.

          • I’m not accusing you of drinking, whether you do or don’t that’s irrelevant and it’s none of my business, it’s your choice. However, if you want to stop drinking and feel that you have lost the power of choice then I could help and so could AA.

          • Sue- that is pretty universal. I too have been accused of being a drunk or a disgruntled drunk he could not make it AA. Neither are true.

            I always found it a rather strange defense strategy. Typical stepper speak.

          • AntiD,

            As soon as I read John’s first post this morning, I sensed a lot of Anger. I see now that I may have been right. Seems like a waste of time and serenity on an anti aa site.

            resentment is the number one offender”, and “If we were to live, we had to be free of anger”. It assures us that unless anger and resentment are removed from our minds, that we shall surely drink again. Hopefully we get the point and take action as directed.


          • The longer a pro-aa cult evangelist engages us on any site, the more they show their shallow range of comprehension and limited range of response, plus the ambiguity and downright contradictions in their thinking.

            John is no exception. Here is how it has progressed –

            1. Anger .. got called on it ..
            2. Backs off to limited reason .. can’t be in the program and be angry ya know.
            3. Comes back a little bizarre as if WE need help with OUR possible drinking.

            I mean, that’s the only real answer here, right? It simply can’t be that people are against AA and be like 20 years without a drunk? Or have spent decades in AA and have seen through all the bullshit with tremendous clarity. Really, now, that’s somebody getting ready to fall for demon rum and their disease is talking, well, obviously. It simply can’t be any other way. So, if you poor sods need help, I’ll be glad to crawl up your ass with my Big Book and help ya right out.

            “Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path”, can’t be a total lie. Can it? It can and it is.

            I, for one, Johnny, don’t want or need your help or the help of your spiritual kindergarten faith-healing book club.

            Some people ARE too smart for AA and, obviously, some are not.

  13. Mike,

    So how long have you been in the cult? I searched AA documentaries. There are two anti aa links out of many and the rest praise AA and Bill Wilson. What peaked your curiosity to read here.

    • Sue.
      First meeting I went to was 17 years ago. In that time I’ve been “sober” two years. I just didn’t drink for about 12. Maybe popped into a meeting every month or so but I was by no means a “member”. I do the moderation thing with sugar. None during the week but I let myself have whatever I want on Sunday. We’ll see how that goes!

      • AA actually recomends that. “why don’t you try some controlled drinking,” doesn’t sound like a wild manipulation technique to me.

        • no they don’t. That’s there “line” but really they wont believe it. We had a blogger tell us where he went back and told them he had 6 beers and they made fun of him. They are assholes. You know it. I know it and the millions reading the anti AA blogs know that wrath of steppers when someone, drinks again.

          They make them stand up, demean them, take a chip BS, what’d you do wrong, Did you work your steps, were you being of service? Did you have a sponsor, did you do a 4th and 5th. I know I was a stepper!!!

          Its going to take ex true believers to call AA and its members on the crap it dishes out. Once you take the rose colored glasses off…there is not turning back! Or like neiko said, you can take the red pill or the blue pill. Im glad I seel for what it truly is.

          • Well I got sober in a group where the really meant it. Finally I had had enough. But I don’t encourage anyone to go to a meeting where they are made fun of for having a relapse. I wouldn’t go there.

            I had an old man threaten to beat me with his walker cause my hair was too long in 1996. I didn’t go to that club. Shortly after he died and that club folded. There were just too many old people that stopped reaching out at that particular place so they ran out of money.

        • AA uses the try controlled drinking statement in the context of fear mongering. The individual is taught that they have a deadly progressive disease and that they may never make it back.

          • anon- true. They really dont mean it when they say that quote from the BB

            ” try some controlled drinking” . Many people leave like anon and successful drink again and its no bid deal to moderate. ALL of that they preach is a lie. Plan and simple.

      • Mike, I would “drink at you” except it is not part of my normal drinking program since leaving AA after over a decade of membership.
        PS, It took me a solid year of hard work to detox from AA to make it safe to drink again.

  14. About the comedy routine, Doug Stanhope is funny here, but I think that surely somewhere there should be a whole hour of stand up comedy about AA. I mean, there is just so much material there…

  15. Well what would this ungratful brat rather of had, an AA sober Mom or a drunk? I had a drunk Mom that used to beat us real bad. I got sober later in AA myself after many treatment centers failed. AA isn’t perfect, but it’s what works most often and its free.

    • john- Im sorry your Mom beat you. I hope you got therapy. AA will not heal that crap. My DAD hit us too when he was drunk.

      I had two heavy drinking parents and its not fun as a teen, I drank, but if I had parents in AA they would have sent me Straight Inc!

      No, let me back up…I would have run away. No I did run. I left home at 17 with my backpack. AA is not place for me at 18 , or anyone under 25.

      There are 6 other free options that have been around for over 20 years. They are better then AA but no one promoted them. AA, Bill , Marty Mann, Rockefeller was a Evangelical Baptist who didn’t drink, his father didn’t drink so he really wanted to promote AA in 1935.

      John, There are many of you whose mom was a drunk who AA helped. But there are far more that AA has harmed. And through these blogs we are actually seeing how many . Now with the internet and youtube we too have a voice. AA gets all the free bullshit promotion every year in some Hollywood TV show or film. The list is too long this year.

      AA is not a scared cow. AA is not the Catholic Church, but john. even the Catholic Church got criticized over and over again this past decade.

      Well now its time the truth about AA comes out and people are warned.

      We have a thing called freedom of speech. If I don’t like a restaurant , hotel , or dry cleaners I can write about it on yelp! Well its about time we had a yelp for AA. This is it my friend. If you don’t like …you can go to the website “In The Rooms” and preach to the choir that is already singing their praises.
      as for here. I think AA and NA have harmed millions . I have had over 1,000,000 hits on this site in just 18 months. and Over 100,000 who read it regularly.

      Orange-papers I think gets 1,000,000 hits a month. Stinkin-thinkin hot huge numbers as well.

      You have an idea about AA cause of your harm done by your MOM, but your mom could have gone to SOS, around for 27 years, Smart around for 17 years, Rational Recovery , around for 25 years, Women fro Sobriety , around for 27 years, Lifering around ???, Hams Harm Reduction , around for ??? and Moderation, around for 20 years…I need to research that ne. The Sinclair Method around for a long time as well. Please feel free to read and post, but no promotion of AA is tolerated here. We had to listen to the Billshit for 36 years …Im over it and so are many other people.

      Have a nice weekend. And remember. You might like Vanilla Ice-cream . I may like Chocolate chip, but each of us are not wrong for our taste. I hate AA now. You don’t.
      We are both entitled to our opinions!

      • I agree with you that AA is not a sacred cow and is not the Catholic church. And I also agree with free speech. All I wanted to do on here is say my piece. You are free to beleive what you want and if you have had an actual bad experience I encourage you to tell your story. Certainly AA is an organization with flaws and will only benefit from critisim of those flaws.
        I don’t promote AA but will defend against criticisms that I think are unfair. Also if you can find a group that helps you more than AA I highly advise going to it. I tried for years to go to other church based groups but all they did was fight about the Bible when I went there. Scientology is something I never tried because I felt their crap was easy to spot and not for me. Space aliens is definately a line for me.

        Have a good week.

        • John- one more thing, before coming to this site were you even aware of the 6 other free self support groups that exist face to face and online meetings?

          Smart REcovery the biggest for abstinence CBT with trained facilitators. SOS, LifeRING, WFS, HamsNetwork, and Moderation.org which has just started up face to face meetings in Los Angeles.

          I myself would have no desire for a religious based support group ever again. AA to me is a very distorted made up goobly gock, severely antiquated room full of nutbags.

  16. Hi John,

    This video and this site may not seem to make sense to you. Most of the people on this site have been deeply harmed by AA, many almost to the point of death. Most of the people here were once deeply involved and dedicated to the organization.

    Leaving AA is a difficult emotional process with a lot of grief involved. These are Kubler Ross’s typical stages of grieving, which many of us have experienced:
    denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.
    This is a site for helping each other through a hard experience. Humor of any kind is healing.
    You may not agree with what you read here. If it disturbs you, it is probably not the best site for you to spend time on.

    • Well maybe your right about it being not for me, I’m someone the program helped. But I have definatly met my share of nuts and I don’t go to those groups. I’m not deeply involved anymore, I still go, but I have also never been a “high up in the organization” type because those are usually the type of people that try to make a religion out of it, and I disagree with that. Over the years thankfully I have developed a life outside and don’t have to go everyday, but without God and the help of AA I could have never have developed the life I have, so I’m greatful and that’s why I commented.

      • Sounds like another AA is the only way story. There are many paths to sobriety. Much higher quality and much safer.

      • Well John, are you capable of being totally honest with yourself and others? Bill Wilson doesn’t think so… As for AA being “free” that is the biggest lie of the century. AA costs about $28,000 to the ones recruited from Rehabs and mental institutions under the “Hospital and Institutions committees” from your local intergroup and about $10,000 from the “Correction Committees.” The next time you are throwing :just a dollar” into the pot take note the number of people who have paid thousands of dollars to learn the religion of Bill Wilson. It is anything but “free” and you are kidding yourself and everyone you talk too about it. I don’t want an answer (because most AA members lie about it anyway), but how much did it cost you in Rehab and/or court and legal fees to learn how to perform the “free” program of the con man Bill Wilson who used the program to give him a home, drive a Cadillac and enough cigarette money to smoke himself to death?

      • john- once i left I realized I did all the work. AA if you give it all the credit keeps your self esteem low. I know many men who are super successful with 20 or more years , but still talk about themselves like they are a 5 year old and they call themselves idiots.

        AA keeps you small. Reading and hearing Chapter 5 th preamble and the 12 traditions keeps a ratwheel running in your brain. Its very harmful programming.

        I challenge you john, to open your BB and read it like you have never read it before. Do you know any 18-22 year olds who are not in AA , or who were not raised around it.

        Ask them to read it and give you their feed back.

  17. Just use AA to be around people in recovery til u get some time and yr head clears up. If u can then go do moderation do that. I’m an atheist and I had to go to AA cuz I was in a half way house. It wasn’t that bad. I decided to stay abstinent cuz I just can’t moderate. But it def gave me some structure for a while. I never believed it was a disease n I never believed in god. I just assumed that was their vocabulary. I met some ok people who helped me. The fucked up AA people were the ones who that was their whole life. Courts should never require AA. Also, I’m guessing it would be good for Christians. My advice is use it for what’s it’s worth m then go yr own way. It’s not that big a deal.

    • Jim _ HI – thanks for sharing – LOL – no really – glad it helped and you moved on — yes ? Problem is Pilots, Nurses and Doctors are forced to go there for 3-5 years. AGAINST their will. So Wrong.

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