Hi- Welcome to LEAVING AA- do you need help leaving? Are you stuck in the middle with no where to turn?

I originally made this blog to help with Stinkin thinkin coming down. I always wanted to help those who are leaving or those who have left.

But recently when I talked with a woman who is still going to AA, who was raped and is being shamed and not supported realized my blog was so far to the” I hate AA page” that there really is not much place for her here…is there. She found her way to me through my stop 13 step in AA page and blog which I have always kept separate so that this could be a place for those who are still in AA and are harmed. I mean my stop13 step blog.

It gave me pause to think about where the blog is right now. So Im a thinking.

SO– I thought of recovery from recovery blog. Are there any other FACEBOOK Pages or blogs that are for those harmed who are not ready to leave but no longer feel safe there….

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53 thoughts on “Hi- Welcome to LEAVING AA- do you need help leaving? Are you stuck in the middle with no where to turn?

  1. I have only posted once here although I have been reading a long time. I was afraid to post my personal story but since you invite interaction now at least I can say, I hope, that I am considering leaving AA without being called a stepper or a troll. I seen people here jumped all over for saying what they feel.

    If there is anywhere I can post less fearfully I would also like to know. Thanks for reading.

    • jenna – I would say here, or Why I left AA stories, or on The Long and Winding Road thread.

      I guess this blog could be called I Left AA….lol…not Leaving AA…

    • Just share your Truth, I have come to value that word greatly after living in that Big Lie AA World. I walked into the Alano Club in WLA today after a long while to see has anything changed, what I saw was crazy steppers worshipping a Lie. I walked straight back out again cursing AA/NA and all the nuts I heeded in my AAWorld years. The more I stay away the more insights I get and the more I am coming to my senses about it all. Wasted years chasing a Lie basically is what it all was, it was a powerful lie I admit but I wasn’t the only one suckered into it and I am glad I am not still in it like most of those losers I saw today in that club, I don’t like calling people losers but what I saw in there today I have no hesitation in calling them losers. I pity any newcomer being sponsered by any of the nuts in that club, I will never get those years back I wasted in that Big Lie but I will trust myself and my instincts & insights more and more. No wonder there is a high suicide rate in that crazy world.

      • Bitter- hi – yes I agree. I had no idea you lived in LA. I wonder which club you are referring too, there are not too many in LA , West LA as far as I know. There is The Marina Center and marsh pit of disgust, and the VRC…on Lincoln. Really these two are not real AA clubs like they have around the country because those are run by club owners and have a board and have rules and sometimes these are very bad places as well run by the sex offenders. I hope you can come to the next screening of the film in LA if you care to.

        I think its painful for also of us when we see how much time we wasted and how sucked in we were. I know that first year I left I really mourned my early 20 ‘s wasted time in AA cult . Although I have to say that by 24 , when I met my kids DAD I really pulled away and lived life much more fully. Still…I was super brainwashed.

        I think your advice to Jenna is so right on the money.

        • Hi massive- This is the Alano Club on pico blvd across from the San Francisco Saloon. You can also enter it on gateway blvd. As a poster said earlier if you hang around dysfunctional people it will rub off on you, well this one sad crazy place. As for the Marina Center and the VRC well words fail me about those places, it isn’t the newcomers it’s the regulars that creeped me out. It still gives me the creeps that I was in the same room as rapists and child-molesters!! I was out of town for your opening in Hollywood but I will be glad to attend the next one massive.

  2. Also 12Step World thinks it has a monopoly on the Truth, it hasn’t as it is a Lie. Steppers think and believe that Wilson got divine inspiration to write the 12 steps but he later admitted in AA comes alive that he got them from the Oxford Movement, Now that is a Lie to begin with, what is is lies in the ‘Honest’ Program?

  3. Help leaving AA? Hmmmmm…… It has been hard for me to shake the mind f*ck that AA did on me with regards to attitudes about relationships. Specifically when it comes to ‘Forgiveness’. AA’s teachings forced me to stuff natural and healthy feelings of outrage towards people who were being abusive to me in my everyday life. I’m talking family, co-workers, fellow church goers, neighbors… those people.

    This morning I saw a sentence then Googled it. OMG…. Up popped a plethora of attitudes around forgiveness that I have have given me peace, directione, comfort and made me yell, ‘YES!’ at the computer. I don’t have to be a doormat any longer.

    I had googled, ‘Forgiveness is Overrated’.

    Give that a try and see if it help with your deprogramming. It has helped with mine.


    • I have found forgiveness a healthy attitude but then I was taught a lot about it – not stuffing down feelings but examining them and seeing if forgiveness would free me from re-feeling old anger. It worked okay for me, gave me some peace of mind.

      • Fuck forgiveness. I did my best to screw with aa once I had that “moment of clarity”. I chaired meetings, during which I made sure to screw up all the rituals, etc… It drove the old timers wild! I also agreed to serve as a group gsr rep and never went, so I got to tell everyone, at every meeting I went to, that I hadn’t been going and that I had absolutely no idea what was going on. I loved the collective “look” I received from the group when I had my chance to shine. Precious! Now I’m fucking with aa trolls that have been calling me and texting me. Granted, this is not friendly behavior, but It’s been very cathartic for me. Cheers.

        • Leaving AA is like removing gum from the bottom of a shoe. It’s different for everyone as they use their plaster knives to dig through the mental and social idiocy that has tried to metastasize.

  4. Librarian= Great post – I see the brainwashing in so many people who are not even in AA, in Cali so imagine how bad it is with those of us who were in it a long time.

    Books like “Getting the Love you WANT” by Harvelle Hendrix helped me years ago with my marriage, even though that one ended, it taught me skills that I really needed for my current love, and husband meaning,

    AA NEVER TAUGHT ME jack ….about that, and in fact hurt my first marriage looking back with its narcissistic teachings , that

    Whenever you share something with me,an opinion, a feeling, I talk about me…..instead of listening compassionately, or asking you more questions about you or having a normal conversation.

    AA teaches people to be more self centered by making its practice to always bring it back to one self. which is utter nonsense. This took a long time to undo.

      • Yes but not with the steps are anything in any of their books. Being responsible for new actions is not an AA thing. Its a part of every good religion and a part of real world where Normal people live. AA language is a bunch of marvel traveling medicine man crap. alla 1939.

      • AND if you read what I wrote here, I am talking about always talking about your self and not listening compassionately which most steppers are clueless at doing…Unless they have had good Non 12 step therapy….I was not talking about responsibility.

  5. I think if you feel fairly stable then hanging out with less recovery people and more normal people is the best way to “deprogram” although I am not really fond of that term. If you hang out with people with a positive attitude to life, that rubs off on you, if you hang around with lots of crazy dysfunctional people then you may become one and that can happen in the 12 step world.
    If leaving AA is a real big issue ( it was a big step for me as I was a big user of substances) then it is probably a good idea to talk to a good non 12 step counsellor if you can, that’s what I found helpful. I think most people just outgrow AA at some point and leave, but others have been affected by it and do need support. I was more angry at myself for believing some of the God stuff in AA despite never fully buying into it, than with AA itself when I looked at the situation after having a break. I do not regret moving on, but am still grateful for the support in my early days.

    • Thank you so much for this livinglife52, I don’t feel angry at AA, it helped to save my life. I was very sick and now have 9 years sober. The trouble is I have got pretty worn out with sponsorship, service and meeting attendance. I started to feel something wasn’t right when I took a break from it all and people started to worry about it. I was fine but they were worried. I never believed that meeting makers make it but then I did the steps by the book and believe I am recovered.
      I am also married to another AA, he likes meetings more than I do. I feel I did my fair share of carrying the message so I am looking to leave for developing in other areas.
      Your suggestion of counselling with a non 12 Step counsellor is a good one. I am okay with God, I have always had faith so that is not an issue for me. The thing that concerns me is my breaking away might cause some kind of rift between me and my husband. Maybe I am just over thinking it, I don’t know!

      • Jenna- I would also Warn your husband and others about the TRACY WHITE murder. Tell them No one should go on 12 step calls anymore. He was targeted as a good stepper, ( be of service) with 17 years and he went and they murdered him. Brutal dismemberment killing in LA in NOV 2010.

        AA needs to re write their stupid book and actually make warning announcements of many kinds. That whole service commitment crap really takes people away from their families and enjoying life. Its endless with them. Like if you don’t do this and you don’t do that you will get drunk ? Really ….I don’t think so.

        • That was a terrible tragedy and sad that he went on a call alone. I have done a lot of calls but never alone and careful about where we met. In my area it’s always been one man and one woman.

          Andy goes on a lot of calls so I told him to be careful.

          • Jenna- Good – There are many targeting nice AA people ….for money scams as well. Glad to hear that he is warned.

      • I don’t think any of us feel like AA saved our lives Jenna except you and loving life who is an ex AA moderate.

        But if He and I know him , and we are friends, was 13 stepped, ( and he was not ) sexually harassed, or raped , and told it was his fault and told he should be ashamed of himself, as some are told, or ripped off for millions of $$$$$, at infitium, ostracized if he did the safety work that we did, he may also not still have a nice place in his heart for AA.

        Thats why he has his site which I think is great. But that is not my purpose or focus here.

        But that didn’t happen to him…Still I think

        You saved your life. Not AA. You did the work….whatever you did…

        AA gives nothing back. ALL the money in NY is used on them , their salaries , their $800,000 Yearly Convention…They do not give a dime back to helping anyone. AND they expect everyone in the service structure to work fro free while Phylis Halliday makes $350,000 dollars a year with a ridiculous golden pension plan for life.

        AA is not the golden standard of anything and it is a bully in our court system, The FAA, THE BON, the HIMS program, AND every professional group is getting extorted there. AA is infested everywhere in america and quite frankly Im disgusted. Even in Psych Wards.

        Yet when woman and men are raped members tell them they are at fault like its the 1950’s.

        • Or…. if LL52 had his 10 year old daughter stalked by a court mandated pedophile that learned our schedule through his sponsor (my husband) then maybe LovingLife52 would feel differently about AA and more tolerant of those who speak out.

          But that being said, everyone can have their own opinion as I believe in freedom of speech.


      • You just described my situation. I doubt I will ever cease going to the, very occasional, meeting because of the potential to harm my husband. But he is far more understanding of my desire to move on from AA than most aa guys would be. He disagrees with a lot of it himself and has read the Orange Papers and thinks it is a great resource.

      • Hi Jenna,

        When I told my husband I wanted to leave, he said ‘Do what’s best for you’ but when the days came where I declined to go to a meeting with him – he became upset. He told me that ‘I just wanted to get drunk’. I told him that I just wanted to do other things along with being sober and that AA was eating up my entire life. I also told him that I felt it was eating up our ‘couple-time’ and the fact that we had no friends to socialize with outside of AA was bothersome to me. It just seemed like everywhere we went it was always program talk. I craved non-program conversation.


        • Hi catherine, I totally hear you on the “program talk”. I meet steppers I used to know sometimes and their whole vocabulary range is program talk, EVERYTHING. It proves to me how brainwashed they are from that program and I see how I used to be. That crazy program completely took over my whole life even though I swore it wouldn’t but it is insidious and powerful I must admit. It is so dangerous to live in a bubble like that and I still cannot believe I lived and saw life through the ramblings of a con man.

  6. I just hooked up today with a friend I used to use and party with 20 yrs ago, he moved back east and we lost contact, in my AA brainwashed mind I figured he must be doing bad or dead cos he doesn’t have a program. Well he is happily married with 2 kids and a nice house and is self-employed. He tried AA years ago but found that it was crap and decided to quit himself and gradually quit over a few years. I have found that people who quit and don’t use AA are much healthier and happier than steppers, how I wish I had followed my instinct after a year sober and walked away from that brainwashing, soul-destroying depression/anxiety induced madness. I hate that sick cult!!!

    • Something wonderful I have learned from my time in AA – when I am in a given situation and I hear alarm bells going off in my head, there is almost always a reason why and it’s often wise for me to walk away from said given situation. I suppressed this instinct during my time in AA but these days, no more. It’s like the alarm bells are all about self preservation – in this case, self preservation of one’s sanity.

        • It seems more and more to me that judges consider AA as a type of jail sentence and one that is cost effective for public balance sheets. Too bad the litigation that can happen from sending criminals to AA where they can prey on the vulnerable can really mess with the public balance sheet. It’s as if the judges are not thinking of the safety of others in the rooms and as if they are not thinking of the risk of litigation arising from the risks of sending dangerous criminals to the rooms. I just don’t get it as there seems to be a marked lack of common sense as to judges and this issue.

  7. When I was in AA, they told me to make amends to everyone I harmed, so I went around groveling to all these people, making a damn fool out of myself. Some of the people actually felt sorry for me, and were like “why are they making you do this? You didn’t have to apologize for that!”

    I still think that in 50 or 100 years, people are going to laugh at this so-called “treatment” for alcoholism. “Back in the 20th century, they made drunks go to church? LOL”

    • austian-HI and Welcome !

      I too made some really stupid amends myself at age 18 !!!!

      The old head of NY AA said to me 6 years ago that he thought AA would be completely extinct in 50 years. I think in 5 there will be severe damage done and a huge shift….10 years very small, by 60-70 %…( when we get all coercion stopped ) and I think gone in 20 as any real use in treating drug and alcohol over use issues. Like Fred Flintstone and the Elks Clubs.

    • In my friends case he attacked the addiction and not himself like they do in 12step rooms. Sin and redemption tactics caused me no end of fear and constant self doubt. I compare my friend to my ex friends with 20 yrs in AA and the difference is stark, the steppers are dependant and childish while non steppers are mature and take life in its stride. I pray “pun” for the day when that AA crap is finally exposed to the world and sued to high heaven.

      • Hi Bitter,

        Your comparison of the two types of people are spot on. I did find members childish and unable to use their own resources to handle life’s problems. They made mountains out of every little mole hill. AA turns normal people into dependent hypochondriacs.


  8. The more AA promotes itself in the media with the likes of Dr Drew & co the more they expose the insane cult to the public. If only I had checked AA out on the internet in those days I would not have wasted so many years in that mad church.

    • I don’t feel the same way you guys do so I will not post here again. There must be some other group that doesn’t want to be critical of AA or having faith in God (religion or not) and I will endeavour to find it. Thanks for your time and I hope you all find happiness and peace of mind.

  9. Jenna- Yes ..I would check out some FACEBOOK Pages…There are many like Rowdy Rum. Just search AA and the like. Good Luck… We’ll be here if you ever need to blog here again. Wish you the best.:)

  10. I have been working on a little blog on an anonymous blogging platform. I chose this route because I am a private person who would not do well if my true feelings about AA, which are negative but complicated, were to become widely known to people who know me. This probably has to do with some PTSD issues that I am still dealing with.

    Anyway, the platform isn’t the greatest, but I wanted to share a link to it.


  11. I just cannot believe this is a real website. aa works for some obviously not for you people what kind of sicko town do you live in? ya aa can be a little cultish but if your not dumb as dirt and pick up some spiritual principles and leave the rest it works and don’t fucking make eye contact with the men and just go to women’s meetings.. and you avoid the sickos.. duhhh. this makes me sick that you have to bad mouth a whole group of people when you had an awful experience but some of us haven’t. we’ve met good people there

    • Hello iloveyou. What a wonderful oxymoronic handle you’ve chosen.

      “I just cannot believe this is a real website.” As opposed to an unreal website? It’s a website and you got here because its a real website. Not much belief needed for that, unless you are tech challenged.

      ” aa works for some obviously not for you people what kind of sicko town do you live in?” Personally, I’m from planet earth. What planet are you from?

      ” ya aa can be a little cultish but if your not dumb as dirt and pick up some spiritual principles and leave the rest it works and don’t fucking make eye contact with the men and just go to women’s meetings.. and you avoid the sickos..” So, there are sickos and men so dangerous that your advice is to not make eye contact with them? Interesting approach. How about run from AA as fast as you can and get real help so you don’t need to be around sickos and dangerous men that you can’t even look at?
      ” duhhh.” Yes duhhh.

      ” this makes me sick that you have to bad mouth a whole group of people when you had an awful experience but some of us haven’t. ” Too bad you are sick, if you haven’t had an awful experience in AA, you haven’t been there long enough.

      “we’ve met good people there” That’s nice, but who is the “we” you speak of? Do you have a mouse in your pocket or an imaginary friend you take to meetings where you stay away from the sickos – which are most people in AA – and don’t look the men in the eye – which are the majority of people in AA? You sound very strange.

  12. I don’t get why someone like Iloveyou posts at a site like this. Does this person honestly think they are going to change the minds of people who have been burned by AA/have numerous horror stories to tell/want nothing to do with AA/are versed in the dark side of AA (and it’s very dark and mostly dark). There are so many pro AA places online where this person can go and fit in – pro AA isn’t going to work here, and I believe this is clear by both the nature of this site and the content of this site. Correct me if I am wrong, but for most of the folks here (including me) finding something beginning to resemble “happy, joyous, and free” required getting the hell out of the roomz and not coming back. Sorry to get long winded here, I just don’t get why this person two posts above would come here and post such.

  13. I met a stepper in the gym the other night, I thought him a friend above the AA crap but all he did was try and judge me & my new life. I pulled him up on it & told him to talk to me without the cultcrap & he did for a couple of minutes but then went back to his AA brainwashed mind. In fairness to him he agreed when I said there was a lot of insanity in AA rooms but overall he has turned into a judgemental & self-righteous prick. I have dropped a lot of AA friends over this last few years and am glad I have as they proved to be negative to me. It is good to be outside that insane circus and to trust myself again.

  14. 12-steps to stuffing your shit.

    1) Admitted to the AA deity that you were “powerless” over being human and needed to end your emotions!
    2) Came to believe that the AA rituals could properly help you become soberly numb.
    3) Turned our will and our lives over to the mechanisms that will enable us to stuff all unapproved thoughts and emotions
    4) Made a searching and miserable immoral inventory of ourselves, leaving no self-depreciating opportunities out.
    5) Ritually spewed our life story, now written in 12-step ease; to the AA deity, ourselves, and to our indoctrinator.
    6) Were entirely ready to make ourselves zombies for the AA deity.
    7) Humbly asked said deity to make us zombies.
    8) Made a list of everyone we have harmed, had words with, gave a dirty look to, sat on their pencil box in 3rd grade…..
    9) Made a direct admission of what a piece of shit we are to everyone above, and how the AA deity has now rendered us into harmless zombies.
    10) Continued to make lists of how everything that goes wrong in our lives is our fault, but anything that goes right is because of the AA parking space deity.
    11) Sought through begging to the AA deity, along with reciting approved propaganda daily, to improve our stuffing of all emotion.
    12) Having stuffed the whole range of our feelings as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this propaganda to other alcoholics, and to practice self-blame and emotional numbness in all our affairs.

    I will admit, it’s not full of catchy phrases, in fact it has none. But when you stop believing in the magic of the 12-steps, you get your emotions back. And I’ve run through some therapists as I’ve slogged tearfully through the levels of this.

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