Kelsey Grammer not a fan of AA. Have I found my Hollywood Hero? YES !!!

Along with Billy Joel, Kelsey Grammer has talked about many things, but one thing, Leaving AA and drinking normally is one thing we all need to hear. We love you Kelsey !!!

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28 thoughts on “Kelsey Grammer not a fan of AA. Have I found my Hollywood Hero? YES !!!

  1. Happy July 4th Massive and everyone else here! I clicked on the link above and read the story and then the comments following the story. Brainwashed steppers spewing their usual love all through the comments…..they really come across as having something I’d be willing to go to any lengths to get…..NOT. I say Kelsey is a fine actor and more power to him. Glad someone high profile publicly escaped AA’s claws.

  2. Great actor and I can’t wait to see Billy Joel on Saturday!!!!!! Somehow we need to get that program out of the fabric of this country because it is very hurtful to the majority of people who go. It helps a few to stay sober and proclaim that God was there savior and blah blah blah but in reality most of these people would quit drinking if they went to a program that told them to drink the blood of an ostrich on Tuesdays. It’s called spontaneous remission! But in all reality I don’t think it is because it’s not a disease.

  3. Nah, someone who thinks women should not be able to abort babies if they conceive from a RAPE, is no-one I could hero worship. Alcohol and “drugs” are as dangerous as each other once they start being abused.

  4. Kelsey Grammer stated he would forgive the individuals who raped and murdered his 18 year old sister, maybe ask him on twitter what his views are I am sure he would be happy to put you right.

    • No need, that’s his decision, I just don’t admire his view on no abortion for rape victims, as I said already.

  5. That’s not the topic I am covering. I have no idea his views on abortion. I doubt he would feel the way you are speaking Lulu

  6. Good for Kelsey. As far as the Alcohol versus the Cocaine statement, I think there is a vast difference. According to the DSM-IV (and probably the V except they’ve weaseled their way out of specifying abuse or dependence), there is such a thing as social use of Alcohol and (by the way) Marijuana. However, there is no such thing as social Cocaine use. Any use of Cocaine is considered abuse. So I think Kelsey is probably onto something.

    As far as his views on abortion, he is a conservative and his views are not entirely uncommon. The simple principle is that two wrongs do not make a right. Also, there is some evidence to suggest that rape victims who get pregnant and have the baby have better outcomes than those who don’t. Why? The most likely explanation is that the baby is innocent. Sometimes, actually often, something good can come from something evil. Most rational and sensitive mothers see the innocent child and come to some level of acceptance about loving the child despite its birthright. He apparently makes an exception for the death penalty because the rapist is not an innocent child. My point is that his opinion is not without reason. You can disagree. What offends me, however, is your knee-jerk, conformist, dogma-spewing attitude that discounts everything he says because he doesn’t meet your chosen talking points. Might as well go back to the cult. Suffice it to say that he agrees with us on the main point of the leaving AA website.

    By the way, my drug of choice was marijuana, though I tried most everything and certainly drank a lot, too. Nowadays, I drink on occasion very moderately. But I really don’t feel comfortable occasionally smoking pot. I passed a line with that substance. I’ve tried it six times in the 18 years post-sobriety, and each time I crashed pretty hard after even a small amount. I like the old terminology of use, abuse, and dependence, with the first two being the vast majority. I do, however, suspect that these may exist on a continuum. What is problematic is the either/or, black-or-white categories that come from 12-step fanatics. If I really wanted to smoke a joint for, say, my anniversary, I am sure I could without the risk of going back down the roller coaster. It’s just that I would have some, I’m not sure, physical or maybe just associative consequences that other people might not experience. Like I said, I would crash really hard. Not something I’d want to do today. Don’t know. I suspect Kelsey knows a bit about Cocaine and how it affects him.

    So, as a former NA, I have really proved to myself that one of the mainstays of NA is simply untrue. A drug is not a drug is not a drug. Some drugs, like Alcohol, can be safe for some individuals–like me–to consume occasionally. Other drugs, certainly cocaine and opiates, may be different for certain people.

    Lulu, stop being so damn dogmatic.

    • Bernie- Thanks for such an intelligent post. Really well put !

      I tire of the same old dogma- guess I should just black Lulu. Yea thats a good idea. AT least with Facebook its so easy to delete and block.

    • I am not sure anyone is being dogmatic but to say that you don’t go to AA anymore and have a drink daily isn’t the same thing as telling another truth. Kelsey’s drug of choice was cocaine and he says in the article that he doesn’t cross that line. That doesn’t prove anything against AA nor does it make him a hero. Booze just wasn’t his real problem. (snip)

  7. “That doesn’t prove anything against AA nor does it make him a hero. ”

    LOL AA has a no-tolerance policy against ALL drugs, even if they were not problematic for you. Some sponsors won’t even allow their sponsees to take doctor-prescrubed SSRIs because it isn’t “real sobriety.”

  8. I didn’t go to a meeting last night and feel better this morning. I cant drink enjoyably any more and don’t need to buy anyone’s language or method to avoid it. The AA herd instinct helped me early on to stay focused on stopping but now that I’m stopped the meetings hurt my psyche; the people in there seem to get pleasure from spewing their judgement on me. I guess they think small cruel comments will draw me in or expose my weakness.The only judgement that really matters is mine. The only tools that matter are the ones that I have found; many of them the opposite of AA stuff. If I’m going to read or listen to the same writings over and over, you can bet they wont be Bill Wilson! They will be Plato, Socrates, Milton, Emerson, Pythagoras, Fibonacci, and others. I really don’t care to hear about how people go to Ohio to visit Bills house and imagine spiritual experience. Hate AA? Great, go get an interesting or scholarly inspirational book. AA is for victims and those who feed on them.

    • Man those birthdays. The cheap awful cake. The singing.

      I would always correct anyone who said I had a birthday coming up

      The speeches are the worst. na is worse than aa in my experience, someone who left before me used to call them the academy awards.

      I switched from na to aa for a less dramatic ‘birthday’. Still feel like an idiot looking back.

      Feels good to throw out medallions and cards.

  9. Sorry, I don’t think the answer to AA’s many problems is to go back to drinking. If anything, that’s only proving the Steppers right that you “can’t do it without us”.

    • HI MIke ! ” Drinking ” is a very loaded word for steppers.
      Many leave and imbibe again moderately. Some can not. Some need Naltrexone. Some need therapy.

      MANY old timers all around the world have left and do imbibe simply.

      Its okay MIKE.

      • I appreciate your thoughts on it. For those who can honestly return to “moderate” drinking without slipping back into dangerous patterns, more power to them. To me, that would at best be playing with fire. I’m committed to a sober lifestyle without mood altering substances (unless under a strict prescription under informed medical supervision for a limited period of time) but I know that’s just me. Like a toxic friend who’s a negative influence alcohol got me in so much trouble and took so much from me and forced me into 12 Steps so I have no reason to return to it in any form. I’ve just known so many people who’ve basically just said, “screw AA, it’s a cult” but then went back to (quickly or slowly) destroying their health and making excuses for their downward spiral. From the outside that sadly looks like Kelsey Grammar (and Charlie Sheen from a few years ago). I’m here because I don’t believe in AA and its 12 Steps, not because I think people who’ve proven over long stretches of incredibly destructive behavior that they should try to “moderate” what was the cause of so much destruction in the first place. Alcohol isn’t worth defending that much.

        • MIke- I appreciate you thoughts and I get it. My experience is so different. Its okay. I do know people who cant drink moderately. But I have run into KELSEY and he seems to be just fine drinking 1 or 2 drinks.

  10. Mike,
    There used to be diagnostic terminology of use, abuse, and dependence (psychological and physical). If I recall, Stanton Peele talked about this in his “Truth about Addiction and Recovery” book. The problem is these terms have been flattened. In fact, they’ve been removed from the DSM-V. So, we no longer distinguish on level of substance use, except maybe as mild, moderate, or severe. The vast majority use alcohol without consequence, or maybe one consequence, and then learn to moderate. Most substance abuse, as a generic term, is merely abuse. This is, for example, drinking and driving, or drinking and getting into a domestic dispute. But that is not dependence, either, even though the courts and treatment treat it as such. Next is psychological abuse, the emotional crutch. Abuse is episodic, whereas psychological dependence tends to be more consistent. Lastly, there is physical dependence, the DTs, withdrawal, blackouts, and so forth. In truth, very few alcohol abusers ever reach the level of physical dependence. These are the individuals the AA was originally intended to address. But what has happened is that the AA tent has widened, with the help of treatment and the courts. Everyone gets treated like they were Alcohol Dependent. Whether or not you choose to drink is your choice, but I suspect that’s where the mustard cuts. If you were physically dependent on Alcohol, then you might not be able to drink safely later on. The problem is that’s not most people, which is the fundamental lie of AA and NA. The rest of us simply needed to grow up. With improved maturity came the ability to control our passions, and thus our appetites, particularly for intoxicants. Today, I have a choice to moderate or be abstinent. Actually, I’ve probably been sober longer than most people in the meetings. But, on occasion, I do enjoy a drink or two, never more. I don’t need to drink or use in excess because I am emotionally mature enough not to need the crutch.

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