WHY has the ACLU not gotten into the Fight against court ordered Alcoholics Anonymous Coercion.

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WHY? It is clearly a violation of our 1 st amendment rights, our civil rights.

So why not. I called the main NY Office in 2011 when my brother in law, who was a long time AA member hung himself in his bathroom in Yonkers.

I called again and then again and then again. I even went to a big fundraiser and paid way too much to sit and eat a $50.oo dinner in hopes I could Network with the ACLU Lawyers.

I did meet a nice USC student who was very interested in talking to me and about AA , Insurance and real treatment. We both dropped the ball.

But seriously, why don’t we all pick up the phone and call our local chapters, tell them about me and my film, or tell them about how every day in every court in every city American citizen are being forced to got to a religous AA meeting. and not just 1 ….sometimes , 50 of them, sometimes , 5 years 3 times a week of them . Professionals forced to go there. Tell them your story if you were coerced at any time. Write your coercion stories down and send them to me and I can compile them for perhaps a class action lawsuit against who….our federal courts??? Not sure but I think compiling the stories so that when its time we have them all written up .

Then come back here and lets report on what happened with those calls. Keeping records and data.

Also , if you could forward and post here any professionals conference that I may attend as be a speaker at and show my film. That is what I will also be doing. Not just showing this film in theaters.

Thank you. contact me through the website here or at makeaasafer@gmail.com

Blessings to you all!

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26 thoughts on “WHY has the ACLU not gotten into the Fight against court ordered Alcoholics Anonymous Coercion.

  1. I am an AA member from the Midwest. I love AA enough to admit that it has problems of its own making. Chief amongst them is refusal to follow its own Traditions. I have done a lot of research on the Traditions, Guidelines, the 12 and 12 and even the Big Book. None of those support the affiliation with the courts as it is now practiced. As you discovered when you attempted to address safety in meetings, the Service Structure in AA is not open to change. I have posted on your blogs before and local AA “leaders” have attacked me. Therefore, I agree that the only thing they will listen to is lawsuits. The WSAA in New York claims they only cooperate and not affiliate with the Courts and yet they have had two Sobriety Court Judges as non alcoholic Class A Trustees! Their Guidelines and Traditions state that Court Mandated Attendees should only attend Open meetings but groups do not follow the Tradition and they are not censured. Censure or delisting a group is what NY GSO is supposed to do in cases of repeated Traditions breaks. In fact they did it when Atheist Groups sprung up around Toronto. They hide behind each Group is Autonomous and yet the full Tradition clearly states except as it effects AA as a whole or neighboring groups. The controversy that the Affiliation with the Courts has brought AA should be enough to stop this practice. Therefore, I fully support you taking this to the ACLU. The Courts coerce a defendant into choosing AA over jail. In order to access that “peachy deal” they must plead guilty. Then once they plead guilty they are in the hands of the probation department and they lose all their due process protgections. Many many many violate probation and then are thrown in jail anyway. Only this time it is without a full hearing. Usually on just the word of a probation officer. All because they have a disease and yet they never see a health professional. They may see a substance abuse professional for an assessment. That assessment always comes back that they need to follow sobriety court (AA Meetings galore) and sobriety court sends the assessor more arrestees to be assessed! What a racket. A.A. has no professionals so the professional sends them to a non professional. Why not send them to a group of others who are pissed off at AA. Oh yeah that is what the are doing. Most closed meetings are attended by a majority of people that are on court slips.

    • What people have to realize is all the Traditions and Guidelines are made up club house rules. They are not laws or legally enforceable by anyone. They are Bill Wilson admiration society club house rules. It is identical to a 12 year old making up rules for his tree house and they are just as meaningful and enforceable. And for whatever bizarre reason, people think they should abide by them or that they actually mean something – they don’t. It’s all complete and utter made up bullshit.

      • spj-It is identical to a 12 year old making up rules for his tree house ..

        LOL HAHAHAH Great analogy. Grown adults , educated professionals getting brainwashed into believing something other then it is. So cult like the way they read Chapter 5 .

      • Spj,

        I love ‘They are not laws or legally enforceable by anyone….. And for whatever bizarre reason, people think they should abide by them or that they actually mean something – they don’t’ .

        You have nailed it. Another example is the ‘One Year for not dating Rule’. That doesn’t appear anywhere in the literature. It is a word of mouth rumor that became law plus – I personally believe it was started as a last ditch effort to PROTECT newcomer women from the most famous womanizer of them all….. What makes me more sick – is that newspapers quote this like it actually exists.

        Since when is it ok to regulate a persons sexuality? Last I heard it was only the Catholic Church that demanded celibacy and that is controversial to this day. So why isn’t it controversial for AA members to demand it of each other? Ohhhh ya….. because they have got everyone brainwashed so badly they are able to control peoples sexuality and personal relationships without anyone saying a word.

        So how about this…. ‘You have cancer… the only way for the Chemo to REALLY work is for you to not have a boyfriend for a year… your life needs to remain the same while you go through cancer treatment’. WTF????


        • Even “life coaches” are regulated. AA and its “members” address life-threatening psychological and biological illnesses without even a certification from ANY organization. ANY clown in AA can pretend they know what’s best for your well being. It’s ludicrous.

    • midwest- The head of the Entire state of California Penal system was on the AA General Service Board in 2008. Look up Jeanne Woodford.

      What a conflict of interest this is and was. How dare they let her do one and the other. Is this when ALL judges were informed how to force people in a saucy, bullying language they ” you must attend 50 AA meetings , or the next time I see you you are going to Jail Buddy boy.”

      I Witnessed this with my own eyes. I was aghast. I followed most of these men out of the courtroom and gave them my literature and explained how the judge could not do this. TO no avail. There were a few young men whose eyes lit up as I spoke. If it was not for the Karla Brada murder and me sitting my ass in those court rooms I could not have beliieved it.

      It is one thing to read something on the internet . It is quit another to be in the court room when it happens. In America.

      Oh AA says it s not “organized” What Bullshit !!!

      • Massive, I would like to see proof (documents) posted that the AAWS board members are part of the penal system. I think that would be a very powerful image – and very damning to all.

        • Librarian- Its actually in their own literature, It is in their service structure, and The animated 12 Concepts Pamplets.

  2. I admire your honesty Midwest, for me personally if a program demands rigorous honesty & is far from honest itself then that is a red flag to me. AA is a buisness pure & simple hiding behind the veneer of “goodness” ie spirituality/religion. This dishonesty is from top to bottom with lies & brainwashing not to mention criminality. Bill Wilson taking sexual advantage of women who are going though hell in their lives is nothing but criminal in my book!! Yet that man is looked up to as a great & good man ie “saint” by a lot of people in the rooms. More lawsuits & more people exposing this sham will result in that house of sand falling. The state of mind that cult put me in wasted 10 good years of my life!!

  3. A.A. ( and ALL 12 Steo groups!) KNOW that were it not for the COERCED attendees, their meeting rooms would be EMPTY, and the AAGSO would be bankrupt within a decade! ALL 12 Step groups THRIVE on coerced attendees, and thus, PROPMOTE THEMSELVES TO, those coercing authorities, that can send hostages their way! A pathetic foundation for a pathetic organization! THIS NEEDS TO STOP!

    • Here, here. One of the most bizarre aspects of this is when AA apologists say there is no link between AA and the justice system. I guess the ones that say that are still drinking or have moved on to smoking meth. A rational person that can read can’t miss something that obvious.

      • There is a clear link between AA and the justice system. Seriously, this is obvious due to the court slips many attendees have to have signed to meet probation or other legal requirements. Who sent these court slip attendees to AA meetings in the first place? The courts! How can anyone claim there is no link between AA and the criminal justice system? It boggles my mind that anyone could not see this clear and obvious link!

        • I looked into the life of Bill Wilson when I really started reading the Big Book and working the steps. I’m a Christian and too much of what I was reading was contrary to my belief system and I had to find out what kind of person would write some of the things I was reading. The book sounded almost New Age to me. What I discovered was eye opening to say the least. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t trust anything about a man who cheats on his wife as much as this slimeball did. Then there’s the excuse he gave while experimenting with LSD, did he really expect people to believe such BS. Also the way he cheated other writers of the Big Book out of their money. This guy was nothing more than a darn fraud. Then I read about his seainces and ouji board garbage and read about some of the people from whom he drew his ideals and I was so out of there. If I had one more person try to tell me AA was built on Christian principles I was going to scream. After what I read I knew nothing could be further from the truth. What really bothered me was it was two Christians that I am very close to who recommended the program to me. Their members of both AA and my church and this still bothers me. I so wish I had known about 12 step rehab and AA before I checked into rehab. I still would have gone to rehab, but it most definitely would have been to one of the few non 12 step programs. Never again!

  4. Here Here !!! Istj04- SO true. Well that is exactly what we are working towards.

    We have begun the activism this week. I will report soon on the next step and how many can become involved.

  5. You know, I’m thinking a little less highly of the ACLU now…..this is the type of issue one would think they would be all about standing up for – the rights of those forced into AA meetings by the courts, even though AA has been declared religious by how many judges? Something here does not smell right here…..Am I the only one who thinks this?

  6. I know Rob, I donated and I went to a fundraiser. I won’t go again if they dont get involved. Look at the issues they get all excited about. I understand some of them but honestly???They must be steppers. Im calling them in LA this week. I am going to hound them.I am going to out them .

  7. First I recognize that many on this site are angry. I would suggest that you stay calm in spite of your anger. In my post I stated that AA’s problems were of their own making. 12 traditions and the guidelines are not “house rules” anymore than any other organizations rules are “fake”. Quite the contrary. If they had followed their “house rules” they would have stayed out of many of the controversies. The fact is they didn’t as I detailed in my post that started this thread. Furthermore, the hierarchy’s claim of each group is autonomous is erroneous. That Tradition clearly states except as it effects AA as whole or other groups. They violated their own Traditions by affiliating with courts on any level. Then they had meetings filled with parties that didn’t want to be there and they were again violating a Tradition. This lead to many people who were not members so they had no responsibility to follow the “house rules”. This was an unintended consequence of unbelievable proportions. It changed the entire culture of AA. Also if it was a plan to increase the number of members it has failed miserably. AA population has stayed stagnant virtually since the start of the court mandating of people. Previously it was doubling every decade. As to the belief that it was done for economic gain? are you crazy? Court mandated attendees don’t give any money and AA’s overall income is down since mandated attendance began. So once again if AA were to follow its own Traditions from the top down, this issue would be resolved for them. If they had followed their own Traditions the safety issue would have been dealt with long ago. If they followed their own Traditions and culture 13th stepping would have been dealt with strong people in recovery protecting the weak. Now that we are here in 2015, the only thing that will get them back to following their own “house rules” is the Brada Families lawsuit and the ACLU fighting the courts. And bad press as provided by websites and movies like the 13th Step.

  8. Just some feedback- You are new to the site and the first thing you are doing is telling us what to do and how to feel. Very typical stepper talk. So what exactly is your point? Please can you just simplify what you are saying?

    • Let me simplify.
      1. Stepper
      2. Trying to justify the complete and utter nonsense that is the entire 12 Step ecosystem of faith healing horseshit.
      3. Grossly uninformed and/or delusional. Example – “Court mandated attendees don’t give any money” highly inaccurate to the point of delusion.
      4. Typical of steppers, thinks we’re angry. Anyone who criticizes the cult MUST be angry to a fully indoctrinated stepper.

      • A pretty sure sign of delusional thinking is thinking that the traditions ever had some noble purpose in the first place. Their only purpose has ever been to provide cover of deniablity for anything the organization wants to do at any given time. They are the ever malleable house rules for a house of cards, built on a foundation of plain bullshit.

        • And don’t forget the ever-present delusion about the “good old days” of AA that need to be gotten back to. The sad truth is people ran from it, people died because of it and it was faith-healing nonsense from day 1. If there are no court mandated it is still faith healing cult horseshit.

  9. For you information midwest I will feel whatever I feel & will not be told how to deal with my feelings either!! This is a great site so please keep your steppism to yourself. I feel anger at AA/NA but I am damn glad I am too as it helps me!!

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